If you have to choose XS2500 vs MS275...

easy · Post by **easy** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:26 pm

What is your pick?
Why i.e. build quality, SQ quality, easy install (built in x-over) etc?

tristan20 · Post by **tristan20** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:19 pm

MS275 without a doubt

itchnertamatoa · Post by **itchnertamatoa** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:01 pm

tristan20 wrote:MS275 without a doubt

X2
MS any day

Post by **Wakeup** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:24 pm

ms is superior ....

Better build quality by far...heavily under rated.
Just better over all.

brenzbmr@sb · Post by **brenzbmr@sb** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:46 pm

ms is just a better built amplifier.

sound q probably not gonna notice that much if any.

but it probably will sound better then the xs.

1moreamp · Post by **1moreamp** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:49 pm

MS all the way, all day!!!! C

Two completely different amp designs Mosfet output like Fosgate for the 2500 and Triple Darlington Transistor for the MS-275

Post by **Bfowler** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:09 am

i love xs2500's....but the ms

eyesofra · Post by **eyesofra** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:26 am

1moreamp wrote:MS all the way, all day!!!! C

Two completely different amp designs Mosfet output like Fosgate for the 2500 and Triple Darlington Transistor for the MS-275

mosfer output vs T-Darligton bipolar ...that'a quite a big enough difference isnt it in terms of load driving capability and SQ ...

easy · Post by **easy** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:01 am

New member of family ....

Now I am off to replacing all the caps and then comparing it with X100.4 side by side; hope it stacks up against Xenon. Wanna bet???

itchnertamatoa · Post by **itchnertamatoa** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:55 am

that's a nice mint looking MS

shaheen · Post by **shaheen** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:43 am

Thats a rev I board, with the master slave set up if I am not mistaken.

and I love the screw

tetraag · Post by **tetraag** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:34 am

Two completely different amp designs Mosfet output like Fosgate for the 2500 and Triple Darlington Transistor for the MS-275

Last edited by 1moreamp on Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:11 am; edited 1 time in total

What is the difference and why is it important?

I am in a similar situation as I am switching over from XS to ZX

Post by **Eric D** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:26 am

I would pick the XS2500 myself. Same sound quality, and far more power.

1moreamp · Post by **1moreamp** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:17 am

tetraag wrote:
Two completely different amp designs Mosfet output like Fosgate for the 2500 and Triple Darlington Transistor for the MS-275

Last edited by 1moreamp on Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:11 am; edited 1 time in total
What is the difference and why is it important?

I am in a similar situation as I am switching over from XS to ZX

I prefer the complimentary transistor sound to the Mosfet sound SQ wise. It's all personal though, you might not hear the difference, I do. And mostly in the midrange area. As for the differences between the two different electronic schemes I will fall back to Bob Cordells arguments as listed here on DIY Audio forum to save time:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthre ... did=101745

He has a more eloquent manner of describing the differences, and since he has a more respected reputation than I perhaps it will be more acceptable also.
I am lucky to be able to run anything I want as I have access to just about any amplifier made at one time or another. There are lots of amplifiers out on the market, and IMO they all have pro's and con's. I can live with the balance I have found with PG amps of both SQ and reliability.

Mosfet amps have a following, just like Bipolar, and all the rest. If your looking for shear brute force power with SQ being somewhat secondary < MPO> then by all means hang with the Mosfet products. Rockford has made millions selling Mosfet power over the years, and facts like that can't be denied. And i am not knocking Rockford, I just don't care for the SQ as opposed to a high quality complimentary bipolar design.

The XS-2500 is no wimp, it has power, and can be depended on to play with great authority but for the power gain difference over a MS-275 I IMO will stay with the MS amp but this again is based on personal and mostly SQ reasons which are highly subjective at best. And possibly not a reason for you even consider based on your individual needs

Please use the link to hear all about the BJT-vs-Mosfet argument as delivered by someone more acknowledged than myself.

As for Doc's thoughts about power I must agree with him the 2500 has a margin more power, but not enough to make me change my mind about my choice I made, as power was not my basis for making my choice.

Post by **stipud** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:33 am

If looks didn't matter, for bass duty I would pick the XS2500, and for everything else MS275.

That MS is too mint to pass up though...

Post by **Eric D** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:53 am

Cecil,

If you get a chance, you should A-B test a XS2500 and a MS275, along with a third MOSFET design, say Rockford for example. After years of using RF amps, I was shocked by how much better PG amps sounded over them. I assumed this was due to MOSFET vs Bi-polar. Well, when I fixed my first XS2500, I was re educated on MOSFET designs.

The XS2500 was for the most part a Punch 200 as far as parts used and quantity of parts. Yet it sounds nothing like a Punch 200. Despite my best efforts, I could not tell the XS2500 apart from a ZX450, ZX500, or my M25 when I performed my own A/B testing. The biggest lesson I have learned from this testing, is it is all about the design of the amplifier, not necessarily the parts used.

PG clearly uses a superior design, and that design carries over into all of the models I have dealt with, from the ZPA, to the M, to Tantrum.

One possibility is the level of feedback used. Maybe PG uses enough feedback, the sonic effects of the devices themselves are negated.

Post by **Bfowler** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:22 pm

thats awesome to know with the XS line. ialways like the sound of them, but my "logic/marketing ears" always told me the ms was superior. i never have done a side by side

1moreamp · Post by **1moreamp** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:24 pm

Oh I agree Doc the PG design is way different and WAY better IMO, the first time I went in on a XS amp I went WTF:!:

I had to rethink the whole thing out as PG uses lots of zeners and such to get sources correct.

And unlike RF which is just a Hybrid bipolar design driving a Mosfet output < kinda cheap IMO> PG used some similar design ideas from their BJT products and incorporated them into their Mosfet output motif.
Its kind of like PG never looses sight of of their original design no matter what they use for outputs, So Yes I agree PG's mosfet are WAY better than RF and MTX products SQ wise.

My Ideas on Mosfet design go kind of on the wild side as I do own some very nice mosfet amp < Adcom> all mosfet designs unlike hybrids I do like the all Mosfet products I have heard mostly Nelson Pass designs. the Adcoms represent as close to a Nelson pass amp you will ever find for the car.

I have a XS-6600 someone gave me and one of these days when things slow down I will finish replacing one of the blown bass channels that someone brutalized, and i will take some SQ time doing a fair and honest AB test as you recommend.

nico boom · Post by **nico boom** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:29 pm

WOW..

That's a lot of knowledge in one thread alright!
Reminds me, of how little I actually know about all those components in these beautifull build MS amps, that I just love so much...
LEARNING ALL THE TIME.
For now; I'll just be enjoying how they look, and sound.

nico

Post by **Eric D** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:28 am

What ever you do, stay away from Adcom products for your home stereo. Other than for driving some subs, they are useless. The harshest amp I have ever heard was my GFA-5300 home amp. My GFA-6000 was better, but not by much.

1moreamp · Post by **1moreamp** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:30 am

I have a Adcom tuner preamp for my bench source, But I have never had much of a hankering for the home power amps. The make a high line Mosfet series of home amps and I know several audiophiles that use them as garage amps < you don't want to even know about this guys living room amps

or his speakers either> But these garage amps have been modded for better SQ. This one person has a LEAP room in his house

I have seen there BJT home stuff, and it pretty much looks like Audiosource BJT inside same outputs, and similar design. All made overseas and very flimsy. But i know people with stacks of this stuff in there house to.

Theres a guy on Craigslist local to me selling his Pass Aleph 5 <60 watt/channel class A all mosfet amp if your interested Doc, only $1250.00 used, its makes a nice foot stool in the living room, and you can shut off heat to that room with a pair of these running. they are known for raising the room temp by 10 degree's are a few hours. All mosfet , Balanced outputs. Makes a nice foot warmer and about 100 pounds to lift and tote around. True Class A never was light weight or easy on the power bill, or pocket book either

Post by **Eric D** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:29 am

I currently have a pair of Forte Model 7 mono amps. They are 75W x 1, Class A, and do a good job heating the room as well.

1moreamp · Post by **1moreamp** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:56 pm

Eric D wrote:I currently have a pair of Forte Model 7 mono amps. They are 75W x 1, Class A, and do a good job heating the room as well.

Nice choice of amp ! C

JEREMIAH · Post by **JEREMIAH** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:38 pm

I have a XS2500 and when it workd the SQ was a 10 out of 10