Subsonic Filter

[brenzbmr@sb]

im 36 and been doing car audio for a long time.

i was building my own subsonic filters and this was back in 93 -95

why because i know that some people are stupid no matter what you tell them...
when pg came out with the bass cube it was like cool...

too me it sounds like your a home audio guy...yeah..

ill answer your question.

i tune my boxes to what i listen too.
also to what my customers listen too.

i like low extension and i dont use an rta to tune my car(cant get any smart alec then that.)

i personally like the low end reinforcement of my subs output.
do i care about group delay...alittle but in the long run
it can be corrected and for what...i dont spend enough time in my car to really care so ill play with my designs and when i find one that works ill build it and put it in the car. if it sounds not to my liking i simply play with tuning frequency untill i get it where i want.

i

all im saying is that turning on a subsonic filter to my car(s) systems didnt do anything you claime and yet you flame me for having a
improper designed ported box...does my box need to have a 1q of .7-.5
to sound good..(no) because once i stick it in my soda can on wheels all that goes right out the window....(hmm it does)


second why do i wanna use my subsonic below my tuning

what to save my speakers...well since i really dont play it to the extreme that some do then i dont feel i need it..

but agian it didnt make my system 8 db louderwhich is what putting back on you....
you said it yourself that it is a highpass filter...

so if you want to get more indepth the why dont you reply with

something in the lines of "using a high pass filter(or subsonic) on your subs can help to increase pwer handling(mechanical) of your sub below the tuning freq due the natural "unloading" of the port caused by the 180 degree phase shift that is a normal in ported designs, this in may return
allow you to play your system louder causing an abiltity to increase your
spl...of your ported enclosure (because your allowing the speaker to
play in the bandwidth of your design by eliminating unnessary frequenies
that your design may not play very well to begin with.)
not the bull claimes you make of 8 db... sheez if i could gain 8 db just by activating my subsonic then i would be in the 150 class for daily driver with two 12s.(oh on the term lab no less)

dude i never meant to get defensive but your comments did that.

i in my first post never flamed or questioned your knowledge. i simply said wut you say because it didnt make sence, and i still disagree with you on that post..i doesnt automatically make your system louder...
that is pure nonsence.



i simply stated that its just a highpass filter that u can use on your sub.

you came back with all of this
i dont know how to properly build a ported box crap...




then you come back with your and audiphile...you dont have group delay
in your subs and also that you dont like ssssssss in your female vocals..

well i dont have sssssssssss when im listenting to norah jones.
katie malua or my personal favorite sade..

again i listen to alot of female vocal trance music and some of it is very

euphoric to listen too..

hey now im an audiophille too.

but im not.............im just a regular joe that has a really good sounding system that has a very smooth tonal responce especially down low..
and with a simple adjustment (not a subsonic) can get this system to
wompppp.

you say you dont have any group delay in your subs...

i beg to differ.....im sure you do... but if this is a home audio system then you have more room to help offset your group delay
then in my car...


to answer your questions

port is tuned at 30 hz and has a port velocity peaking at 39 ft/sec at about 25hz

i think thats pretty quiet.....

is the port design to not make the sub have too much excursion at the wrong frequencies

hell no its not....i m not running enough power into it even worry about hitting the max mechanical powerhandling. so again i dont use my subsonic because if i want it to play lower then tuning im not to worried about it...now if i was to increase the amplification then yes i would use it.

the system q
well ill let you figure it out....


and yeah the only reason it was spelled nuther is because i felt it was as
good as phrase which you spelled wrong more then once.

so now since i am so defensive think about why
you came on here talking to me like im some little kid, well my 11 yearold son
believe it or not called your post....thats right he asked me if that turning on a subsonic would increase your output...

hmmmmmmmmmmm Hes eleven............

so you take care and have a nice day....

[ericb]

Hey there Eric. So glad you could stop by.

I will ask you to refrain from your current argument style. You are arguing the person, not the point. The whole purpose of an argument is to have your opponent agree that your point is the correct one. To do this, you need to back up your point with solid facts and persuasive skills.

You will notice that Brenz first came back to you by fighting your subsonic filter point. What are you doing instead? You come back with personal insults. Of course it's going to start an argument! You are trying to debase someone you don't know across the internet, claiming that he has no idea how to build a box because he's just some "car audio guy", and that he doesn't know "enuff about phrase", or that he's too much of a whippersnapper to know anything. PUHHLEASE. This is all irrelevant to proving your point that a subsonic filter increases output. All it does is make you come off like an asshole. Once you start insulting people, of course they get "defensive as heck"! What were you expecting? An apology?



I will now refer you to the welcome post of the forum. Read it, and read it well. Don't forget to follow the links on logical fallacies and strawman arguments.
http://phoenixphorum.com/welcome-to-pho ... vt169.html

Now go back and read your posts. Reflect on what you have said and how they comes across. Ask yourself if this is relevant to the argument or not. Maybe, just maybe, you can learn something.



Now that we're done with that, let's take a look at your point.

"with properly designed ported boxes, you will notice an increase in bass immediately by switching it on, if it's set right. everything under the ported box tuning frequency in out of phrase with the stuff above the tuning frequency. you will also get up to 8-b more db on the final output in a ported environment."

When a woofer plays below it's tuned frequency, it unloads, possibly causing it to pass Xmax/Xmech and damaging the driver. The frequency response also rolls off very quickly below the tuning frequency, typically at a much steeper slope than a sealed equivalent. Because of this, below the tuning frequency you get enormous amounts of possibly damaging cone displacement with very little output. This is contrary to the tuning frequency, where you get the least movement for the most output.

This is why we install subsonic filters - it keeps your woofers from breaking, and it focuses the enclosure on playing the range it was designed to. Because the power supply in the amplifier is spending less of it's energy playing notes that it the enclosure is not suited to, there is a bit more energy to feed to the proper note. This does not equate to an 8 decibel boost however. Where did you get that number anyways?

The rule of thumb is that in order to attain a 3 decibel boost, you have to double your power (or cone area). For 6 decibels you would need FOUR TIMES the power, and for 9 decibels you would need EIGHT times the power.

So, to make about 8 decibels more, the amplifier would have to be pushing out 8 times as much power as it was before... a subsonic filter is not going to do this. A flux capacitor maybe??

Hell, a subsonic filter will only make a noticeable difference in power if there's sound below that frequency to begin with. However your point was such a sweeping generalization that it sounds like you are trying to say that by flipping the magical switch on the thing, you immediately get a huge boost in output over the whole frequency range. That is also impossible.


I could go on and on for ages, but I think this should give you enough to think about for awhile.

I didn't even want to answer the post because I knew that this would happen. the truths hurt. 90% of box builders don't know how properly build a ported box. it's fairly simple to build a seal box, but a port box was never simple. because car audio now dominates the audio scene, the fact will never be realized now

here is a simple hard truth. most car audio people that have got into car audio since 1998 know little about audio. the game has changed. people today listen to distorted music (lot of screaming). companies lie about everything now then they overmarket it and you guys believe it because you most of you know everything anyway. now this doesn't apply to all of the new guys (there are plenty of new guys with lots of info, but there are millions with none), just most of them

now I guess that you missed the part about up to an 8db increase. we got an 8 db increase in the final output on the jbl 1500 gti speaker and the original cerwin vega stroker just by implementing a subsonic filter on it. we just a 7 db increase in the B-52 15 and a 6 db on the image dynamic 15. the a lot of people that will talk about something in their head. we use to always use test equipment. we gave real world result, not a thought

now I stated a truth that some of you guys just don't believe. I wasn't attacking anybody. if anybody got offended I apologize. but when a guy wants to correct my spelling and call me name (you stipud) then I get defensive too.

now let's drop the subject. the out of phrase info under the tuning was the most important factor on a subsonic filter. eliminating anything out of phrase is beneficial. if you don't believe me, fine. that's your loss and lack of info

[stipud]

You're right, my whole argument can be summed up as name calling. Clearly I have not made one valid point towards your argumentative style or your stunningly empirical evidence. But if you're going to ignore the point and act boo hoo insulted when I try to help you, maybe I will just have to resort to actually being an asshole.

Everything we know is just myth, and "in our head", because we have never actually installed any stereo equipment, let alone driven a car. You see, I can't afford one because I am only 14 and everything I know I learned from Pimp my Ride. Yes, i'm just your typical mouth breathing car audio enthusiast... not like you home audio gods. Well shit, let me get your pedestal ready.

I mean who really cares how a subsonic filter works... just flip a switch and you get more decibels! Who cares whether your playing music, or tones, or what frequency it's at. All of that theory is just hooey because the phrases is in the lignment with the planats. It's true because you're older than me, and I am just one of those 90% of car audio types who can't build a box.

Hey, before you start calling us out on our box building skills, have a look at some of our installs first. Or, better yet, have a look at your own. Where do you get off telling us that we have no idea how to build boxes, when your install is so hilariously bad. You are calling us out on PHASING, when you mount your own speakers on various sides of the box. This tells me that you don't have the slightest idea what phasing is. Please tell me how your install conforms to ANY car or home audio practices of now or 1989, which was clearly the pinnacle of audio knowledge. Do you have any idea what impedance means? Octave? Slope? Obviously you haven't heard of butterworth alignment, ELBSNT, zagnut or other big words which have no relevance to this topic.

Seriously, you have some fucked up stereotypes about car audio enthusiasts. Car audio dominates no scene except for 16 year olds trying to get some bump in the trunk. THERE'S MORE TO IT THAN THAT. Believe it or not there is also an upper echelon of people who try to replicate the sound you can get in your home in a car. You know why? Because it's fun, and when you're smart enough, you can even begin to overcome the downsides of the environment. For the record, I have a nice home stereo as well. But clearly not as nice as yours, because I don't have a subsonic filter installed.

I'll make this simple for you. Please get over yourself and learn how to argue or get the fuck out

[ericb]

You're right, my whole argument can be summed up as name calling. Clearly I have not made one valid point towards your argumentative style or your stunningly empirical evidence. But if you're going to ignore the point and act boo hoo insulted when I try to help you, maybe I will just have to resort to actually being an asshole.

Everything we know is just myth, and "in our head", because we have never actually installed any stereo equipment, let alone driven a car. You see, I can't afford one because I am only 14 and everything I know I learned from Pimp my Ride. Yes, i'm just your typical mouth breathing car audio enthusiast... not like you home audio gods. Well shit, let me get your pedestal ready.

I mean who really cares how a subsonic filter works... just flip a switch and you get more decibels! Who cares whether your playing music, or tones, or what frequency it's at. All of that theory is just hooey because the phrases is in the lignment with the planats. It's true because you're older than me, and I am just one of those 90% of car audio types who can't build a box.

Hey, before you start calling us out on our box building skills, have a look at some of our installs first. Or, better yet, have a look at your own. Where do you get off telling us that we have no idea how to build boxes, when your install is so hilariously bad. You are calling us out on PHASING, when you mount your own speakers on various sides of the box. This tells me that you don't have the slightest idea what phasing is. Please tell me how your install conforms to ANY car or home audio practices of now or 1989, which was clearly the pinnacle of audio knowledge. Do you have any idea what impedance means? Octave? Slope? Obviously you haven't heard of butterworth alignment, ELBSNT, zagnut or other big words which have no relevance to this topic.

Seriously, you have some fucked up stereotypes about car audio enthusiasts. Car audio dominates no scene except for 16 year olds trying to get some bump in the trunk. THERE'S MORE TO IT THAN THAT. Believe it or not there is also an upper echelon of people who try to replicate the sound you can get in your home in a car. You know why? Because it's fun, and when you're smart enough, you can even begin to overcome the downsides of the environment. For the record, I have a nice home stereo as well. But clearly not as nice as yours, because I don't have a subsonic filter installed.

I'll make this simple for you. Please get over yourself and learn how to argue or get the fuck out

1st bitch, I'd never call you a name or said anything to your dick sucking ass. you jumped here attacking me, because me and somebody else had a difference of opinion.

stfu or I'll send your momma back home to check you

[1moreamp]

BAN this person Please

[fuzzysnuggleduck]

You're right, my whole argument can be summed up as name calling. Clearly I have not made one valid point towards your argumentative style or your stunningly empirical evidence. But if you're going to ignore the point and act boo hoo insulted when I try to help you, maybe I will just have to resort to actually being an asshole.

Everything we know is just myth, and "in our head", because we have never actually installed any stereo equipment, let alone driven a car. You see, I can't afford one because I am only 14 and everything I know I learned from Pimp my Ride. Yes, i'm just your typical mouth breathing car audio enthusiast... not like you home audio gods. Well shit, let me get your pedestal ready.

I mean who really cares how a subsonic filter works... just flip a switch and you get more decibels! Who cares whether your playing music, or tones, or what frequency it's at. All of that theory is just hooey because the phrases is in the lignment with the planats. It's true because you're older than me, and I am just one of those 90% of car audio types who can't build a box.

Hey, before you start calling us out on our box building skills, have a look at some of our installs first. Or, better yet, have a look at your own. Where do you get off telling us that we have no idea how to build boxes, when your install is so hilariously bad. You are calling us out on PHASING, when you mount your own speakers on various sides of the box. This tells me that you don't have the slightest idea what phasing is. Please tell me how your install conforms to ANY car or home audio practices of now or 1989, which was clearly the pinnacle of audio knowledge. Do you have any idea what impedance means? Octave? Slope? Obviously you haven't heard of butterworth alignment, ELBSNT, zagnut or other big words which have no relevance to this topic.

Seriously, you have some fucked up stereotypes about car audio enthusiasts. Car audio dominates no scene except for 16 year olds trying to get some bump in the trunk. THERE'S MORE TO IT THAN THAT. Believe it or not there is also an upper echelon of people who try to replicate the sound you can get in your home in a car. You know why? Because it's fun, and when you're smart enough, you can even begin to overcome the downsides of the environment. For the record, I have a nice home stereo as well. But clearly not as nice as yours, because I don't have a subsonic filter installed.

I'll make this simple for you. Please get over yourself and learn how to argue or get the fuck out

1st bitch, I'd never call you a name or said anything to your dick sucking ass. you jumped here attacking me, because me and somebody else had a difference of opinion.

stfu or I'll send your momma back home to check you

Such irony...

It seems like you have very little desire to stay or participate in the forum now but let me assure you, if you do want to participate, enjoy and have fun here you will need to tone it down with that potty mouth and attitude.

37? You sound like a kid.

[Bfowler]

oh snap....he went right for the mama

[ericb]

BAN this person Please

fuck you too.

these speakers was made on a whim. bitch with age comes experience

http://www.tech-forums.net/pc/f12/i-m-c ... io-149303/

you motherfuckers don't have to ban me. I'm gone from this stupid forum. mf's can attack me but I can't attack back. fuck you

[1moreamp]

BYE- BYE don't hurt yourself leaving, and don't let the door hit you in the ass either since it your biggest part next to your mouth

[fuzzysnuggleduck]

BAN this person Please

fuck you too.

these speakers was made on a whim. bitch with age comes experience

http://www.tech-forums.net/pc/f12/i-m-c ... io-149303/

you motherfuckers don't have to ban me. I'm gone from this stupid forum. mf's can attack me but I can't attack back. fuck you

You're calling Cecil out on AGE?!?! Are you serious, he's the oldest guy here! If experience comes with age, Cecil has you fucking OWNED ... wait, he has you owned anyways. Why? Because he's the man.

You're leaving? Fine by me, neither you nor we need this kind of drama and if you've decided to leave on your own accord, that saves us all from post after post of bullshit and also saves me the effort of going into the administration panel and clicking "ban" button.

[ericb]

BYE- BYE don't hurt yourself leaving, and don't let the door hit you in the ass either since it your biggest part next to your mouth

at least it ain't little like your dick.

[1moreamp]

BYE- BYE don't hurt yourself leaving, and don't let the door hit you in the ass either since it your biggest part next to your mouth

at least it ain't little like your dick.

How would you know big boy

[stipud]

Banned!

Boy that was fun

We need to get retards like him more often.