comps front & rear or comps front & coaxs rear????

scorpio86 · Post by **scorpio86** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:38 pm

ya read da title first

if car matters.. itsa convert 2 door.. so comps in doors and either comps or coaxs in the rear side panel.. ?? thanks

Post by **stipud** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:16 pm

NOTHING in the rear. Rear fill is for whiny back seat passengers. If you've got a 2 seater, keep it up front! They don't put speakers behind you at a concert, so why would you want it in your car?

Rear speakers just mess up your soundstage and imaging. I don't install any unless it's a big 4+ seater, and even then I usually only install midrange (treble bounces around quite well), and fade it out whenever there's nobody in the back.

gkitching · Post by **gkitching** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:08 pm

^^X2!^^

majette · Post by **majette** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:10 pm

rear speakers? in a car? really? who does that?

waynehead · Post by **waynehead** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:18 am

I'm all about no rear fill too but this dude has a convertible and I'm honestly worried about a single set of 5.25's putting out the midbass he wants and needs. I told him he should check into a rsdc mid driver in the back but I'm nobody. Anyone else got some good advice for his lack of cone area.

Post by **stipud** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:30 am

Rsd components put out a surprising amount of midbass. With proper deadening, even a 5.25" set can keep up and blend with a typical subwoofer setup.

If midbass is a concern, then kickpanels are a good solution. Move the midrange/tweeter to the kicks, and install a midbass driver in the door. There are surprisingly quite a few good 5.25" midbass drivers, like the Tang Band neos, or Focal 5WT's.

The problem is that the human ear can locate sounds above 60Hz or so. This means if you have your sub crossed over any higher, then you will get that "sub in the back" sound. The idea is to make everything sound like it is coming from the front. Ideally you want your front speakers to play down to 60Hz. Of course this is very difficult to accomplish, since most conventional components start rolling off dramatically between 100-250Hz. This is where midbass drivers come into play, by taking up the 60-250Hz range, thus allowing your components to play the range it was designed for.

However, most cars aren't designed for a second speaker set up front. So, is it okay to install midbass in the rear? I personally would not recommend it, as it defeats the purpose of midbass. Remember, we are trying to keep our soundstage forward. If you move the midbass to the back, your ears can pick up where the sound is coming from, and your bass image moves even further to the trunk. If you think about it, this would be almost no different than letting your sub play up to 250Hz, with your comps crossed above that.

So, if you're going to install midbass, you really need to make sure you keep it up front. If you can't, then you are better off spending that time and effort on improving your front stage in another way, like deadening treatments, or a sealed enclosure, or shoehorning a bigger component set in.

denim · Post by **denim** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:34 am

I agree strongly with stipud. Maybe even take it further and just do the RSD components up front and toss the cross overs and use the built in crossovers in a 4 channel amplifier, or better yet in an advanced head unit.

Also, it is worth spending a few dollars on sound deadening. Check into Second Skin Damplifier Pro.

Post by **Bfowler** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:52 am

i have an install for an m3 convertible in the install section

i went with rsd 5.25 comps all around powered off the head unit.

i can tell you they sound great crossed over at 80hz. the jl w0 8" with 300 watts is the part of the system that doesn't keep up

if you do back speakers, just go with whatever installs easier. the m3 had factory locations in the back for separate mid/tweets so i used them

waynehead · Post by **waynehead** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:07 am

Im not really aware of how the rsdc comps perform. Im sure if he can get away with a 5.25 he will do so. I know he is going for a SQ setup and deadening the doors is something that should be done regardless. He has had good setups before with good equipment, but never with a dominant front satge. He is a VERY loyal PG follower, to the point where I dont even know if he would use a different company's midbass driver. I just know he is very unhappy with his MACH 460 stuff, it is very clear that it was made to go loud and thats it. It is all a narrow band of lower frequencies and peircing highs and no midrange. I think what he really wants is some SQL. Like myself he likes to turn it up sometimes and the soft top isnt hleping him. Is anyone running a single 5.25 component set and having good results.

waynehead · Post by **waynehead** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:11 am

Dont hate but i told him he should run a set of ID x-69's and some cde-1 horns and he would have all the volume that he would need along with an amazing front stage. I even tried to give him my Idmax. Yeah... he wasnt having it. Like I said before Mo fo is loyal as hell. I'm almost afraid to start listening to PG stuff, It's almost like a cult

Post by **Bfowler** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:15 am

^ i agree. with the top down, unless he is running ton of power, the single comp set might not do it.

although a 6x9 min driver with horns should get up and boogie pretty well. he will need some extra processing though

waynehead · Post by **waynehead** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:22 am

true dat. He has a eq232, bass cube, line driver, but like i said he wants to use Pg stuff. and it HAS to match lol. Im about to PM him and tell him I'm talking about him. lol

waynehead · Post by **waynehead** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:23 am

he's going to be running a tantrum 600.4 and 1200.1. So a ton of power he has. A set of horns on that amp would prolly hurt

scorpio86 · Post by **scorpio86** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:41 am

i think the fool wants ta throw himself off the bridge... collect insurance money and come back to buy zpa

LOL

waynehead · Post by **waynehead** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:48 am

scorpio86 · Post by **scorpio86** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:55 am

why the suggestion of putting the comps in kicks and running midbass in the doors.. why not the other way around??

waynehead · Post by **waynehead** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:04 am

because your mids make your stage and kicks are better for stage. and i imagine doors with all there empty space would make a bigger enclosure unless you wanted to cut some shit

scorpio86 · Post by **scorpio86** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:07 am

right so if kicks are better for stage.. and midbass helps blend your subs and highs together.. wouldnt they be better suited in kicks.. ??

waynehead · Post by **waynehead** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:08 am

I imagine most midbass speakers need some air to move to get low boss

waynehead · Post by **waynehead** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:10 am

your midrange speakers being in the kicks and flowing up the console will give you the effect that the main speakers of a concert are right in front of you while your ears have more trouble hearing where notes from 45 to 120 are coming from they can be in the doors and if they are crossed over well with the midrange they shouldnt pull the sound stage out to far

waynehead · Post by **waynehead** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:12 am

Im rambling someone help.....

scorpio86 · Post by **scorpio86** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:13 am

so then becomes the question of what midbass to get.. like hmm.. TI midranges

waynehead · Post by **waynehead** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:25 am

Ti elites maybe or cdt m16 5.25 mid/subbass driver, morel ovation, or.... a set of x-57 and horns and no cutting or midbass problems cough

scorpio86 · Post by **scorpio86** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:28 am

*cough cough* you needa get dat shit checked out

sounds like that in da body karate!!!

how bout findin' me a set of 5x7 midbass

Post by **Bfowler** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:31 am

just a FYI. there are ti elite 5.25's on PDX craiglsit right now for $200. the seller is Keith Peterson (former PG CEO) i have him on my speed dial.

what wayne is saying is the the midrange speakers are more directional and more unforgiving for stage.

the kick area creates a more even distance for your stage (reach with your arms from the driver seat. the distance from your fingertip to speaker location is more even in the kick area then the door panels (even though its slightly farther))

the midrange is very easy to localize compared to the midbass, so you want to utilize the better location for the midrange.

in the perfect world both the midbass AND the midrange would be in the kicks (and maybe even the tweet) but this is most often not a option.

whew...did that make any sense?