Do I need a Line driver? Can I use 1 coil on a dual coil Sub

[Food4Woofers]

Hi, This is my second posting. Im new here and looking for a few pieces of gear and also some opinions on what I think I need.
I have a nice condition Ti800.1. Looking to get a Ti500.4
The amp is rated at 1ohm stable BUT I find this barely stable at all past 50% volume.
I have 2 Ti10d subs loaded down to 1 ohm.
The amp kicks off when I turn it up half way.
Im thinking it is stable but not at high volume levels.
So id like to know if its ok that I use just one coil per sub to get a total of 2 ohms to the amp which I think is the lowest stability at full throttle.
My concern is the wattage to that coils. Im thinking the wattage will not be split up like it would be on the 2 coils per sub setup vs the one coil per sub and wont handle the rated wattage. Im thinking the coil will burn up from getting ALL the power rather than sharing with the other coil I will not use. Do you think the sub will handle the wattage and also perform the same considering Im not using the extra coils? Some companies say to use Both or the sub will not perform the same.
One other option is to see about trading the 800.1 for an 800.2 or getting a 1000.2. From what Ive heard so far the amp is more SQ than SPL. Im also thinking the amp needs a line driver.
I have a Alpine 9887 that spits out upto 4 volts to the amp. But i noticed the 800.1 doesnt have hardly any output until I crank up the gain all the way. Ive read some reviews and people have said the same thing and suggested a line driver because the amp comes alive at 6 volts.
Thanks for the responses and Go PG

[ttocs]

the ONLY sub I ever blew was a dvc sub that I only hooked one coil up to. Only lasted one night.

IMO not only is power handling an issue but now you have half the motor pulling the full speaker = too much work.

[Food4Woofers]

This is exactly what I was thinking.
So Ill have to see if someone will take a trade on a Ti800.1 or buy it.
OR I can keep it for another install later in the future and find a Ti800.2 or a Ti1000.2

Thanks

[ttocs]

or buy a 2nd 800.1...

[Food4Woofers]

YES !!!!
I think Ill do that instead.
Thanks

[avalanchels]

The best question to ask in this case is...what are you running for electrical?

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[Food4Woofers]

I have the factory alternator, New battery. Zero gauge power and ground.
If I get another 800.1 I my have to upgrade the alternator. Thats outta my price and outta my league. So Maybe Ill look into selling the 800.1 for 2 600.1's are a 800.2. The 100.2 is a beast and probably wont fit in my ride with the addition of the 500.4
Urrrr.. Choices.
I should have gotten single coil subs.....

[kg1961]

the ti800 amp is only rated at 2ohms so running it a 1ohm it should shut down when turned up
you can still run your subs just change the way they are wired.
Pg i known for having type o in there manuals
maybe someone can chime in but if this amp is a/b there is no way pg have made it 1ohm bridged
this is why the spec say this
Titanium 800.1
Into 4 ohms @ 12.5 Vdc (IASCA/USAC) . . . . . . . . .200 x 1
Into 4 ohms @ 14.4 Vdc . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .400 x 1
Into 2 ohms @ 14.4 Vdc . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .800 x 1
Into 2 ohms @ 14.4 Vdc (Dynamic Power) . . . . . .1000 x 1
Recommended Fuse Size . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .80 Amps
Dimensions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .18.0L x 10.0W x 2.35H
or they would have a 1ohm rating

[avalanchels]

I have the factory alternator, New battery. Zero gauge power and ground.
If I get another 800.1 I my have to upgrade the alternator. Thats outta my price and outta my league. So Maybe Ill look into selling the 800.1 for 2 600.1's are a 800.2. The 100.2 is a beast and probably wont fit in my ride with the addition of the 500.4
Urrrr.. Choices.
I should have gotten single coil subs.....

What size alt? What battery? Did you upgrade the Big 3?


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[Food4Woofers]

Just the factory alt and the usual battery. Nothing special. No big 3. Im not out do any SPL shows LOL
But id like some slam.
The 10's I have are pretty good. The resale value on them aint worth a dam so Ill be keeping them.
So my best best is to find an amp that will do 2 ohm stereo. I didnt plan on having the 800.1 shit down at 1 ohms. The Manual states its 1 ohm stable.
Google the manual. Its right there in plain english. Im kinda bummed.

[avalanchels]

Just the factory alt and the usual battery. Nothing special. No big 3. Im not out do any SPL shows LOL
But id like some slam.
The 10's I have are pretty good. The resale value on them aint worth a dam so Ill be keeping them.
So my best best is to find an amp that will do 2 ohm stereo. I didnt plan on having the 800.1 shit down at 1 ohms. The Manual states its 1 ohm stable.
Google the manual. Its right there in plain english. Im kinda bummed.

You don't have the electrical to run that amp at 1ohm. Upgrade the big 3 with 1/0 and get a good sealed AGM battery (stinger, Odyssey, xs power, batcap). You will be surprised the difference it makes. Good electrical is not for SPL shows, its to protect your equiptment.

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[Food4Woofers]

Interesting.
I did have a more powerful amp on these 10's
The brand was Massive Audio Model P1500
An impressive amp for the money
Only reason i sold it was cause I wanted the wiring all on one side of the amp due to my setup
That amp never cut off or ran out of juice so to speak.
Do you really think upgrading anything electrical would allow me to run this 800.1 at 1ohm?
it does play fine at half volume. I can even crank it up for a few seconds at full tilt. But then it cuts off. I turn the volume down for 30 seconds and it magically comes back on. LOL
I like that about this amp. It seems to smart. It seems to know when to protect itself from melt down.

[avalanchels]

Interesting.
I did have a more powerful amp on these 10's
The brand was Massive Audio Model P1500
An impressive amp for the money
Only reason i sold it was cause I wanted the wiring all on one side of the amp due to my setup
That amp never cut off or ran out of juice so to speak.
Do you really think upgrading anything electrical would allow me to run this 800.1 at 1ohm?
it does play fine at half volume. I can even crank it up for a few seconds at full tilt. But then it cuts off. I turn the volume down for 30 seconds and it magically comes back on. LOL
I like that about this amp. It seems to smart. It seems to know when to protect itself from melt down.

If you have the proper electrical to support, it won't go into protect.

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[Shinju]

I been running a DVC Sub off one coil on my bench for quite awhile, and I have put some serious power on it and it still goes like it was new. Of course it is an over built original WMD. Not sure what happend to the other coil I got it like this but I can see the VC and it looks new, I think a tinsel lead under the cap died.

[dvnt88]

I have a TI 800.1 for sale in the the Buy and Sell threads if you want to go that route. Check it out and if ur interested , pm me.

Here's the link to the 800.1.

http://phoenixphorum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20008

[Food4Woofers]

Im going to try using the subs in single coil configuration. If burn up.. O well.
I actually need a 500.4 MORE than another bass amp. Sooooooo
Thanks for all of your ideas and opinions.
Ill try this setup and get back here to post my results .

[avalanchels]

Im going to try using the subs in single coil configuration. If burn up.. O well.
I actually need a 500.4 MORE than another bass amp. Sooooooo
Thanks for all of your ideas and opinions.
Ill try this setup and get back here to post my results .

Or you could use $30 worth of 1/0 and upgrade your big three rather than burn up equipment.

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[Food4Woofers]

The battery wire Im using is zero gauge.
The amp is about 2 feet from the battery. My battery is located under the rear seat. The amp is in the trunk. The ground wires are next to the amp. The big 3 may work for others but in my situation it would not.
Also
I had a 1500 watt amp on the same subs. Thats almost double the wattage of the Ti800.
That amp didnt cut off.
When turning the Ti800 up it doesnt even dim the lights. The 1500 watt amp did dim lights
Which tells me the Ti800 isnt having trouble getting amperage. Its having trouble producing wattage at 1 ohm.
Im also most certain ill need a line driver for the TI800 after reading several similar write ups about the gain needing to be all the way up to get any volume.
Ive weighed the pros vs cons in my situation and from every ones responses and several google searches, Ive decided to try using the subs in single coil configuration for 2 main reason. One being I havent done this before and am interested in hearing any differences and/or smelling any burnt coils that may possible happen when I crank it up. 2nd main reason is cause I dont want to keep making my Ti800.1 cut off. For whatever reason it just isnt working at 1ohm so good. If its due to a 1 ohm load Ill find out later tonight. If it keeps shutting off at 2 ohms then its possibly some electrical deficiency you suggested. I really DONT want to spend any more money on wires and spending time on the Big 3 when I can be educated and entertained on this journey through single voice coil configuration on dual coil subs in my own ride, right now, tonight. LOL
Im gonna crank this baby up and TRY to burn the coils. Ill get back to you all and post my findings.
This will be interesting because from my long use with the Ti series subs, these things take way more power than they are rated. Ive read that others have beat these into such wattage torture that the CONES bent but the coils stayed fresh and clean
We shall see. Thanks for the suggestions.
You all know this is a passionate hobby. The experience is the thrill. Not just the Knowing
I wanna experience the technicalities and beable to say I have first hand knowledge of this particular situation..
Again Thanks

[Food4Woofers]

Ok. So here I am. Back with a verdict.
Using just 1 voice coil per sub on these dual voice coil subs
with a total of
2 ohms
to the
Ti800.1 ...................


JAMS !!!!
Didnt cut off. Didnt overheat. Didnt burn the subwoofer voice coils
I jammed to Techmaster PEB
Dynamix II
Mandroid
ChakaKahn
Keith Sweat
Amythestium
Surface
and a couple more

Actually it sounds better!
When I was done and My ears couldnt take anymore, I got out and checked the amp with my hand. It was cool to the touch.
I checked the subs with my hand. Since they are all aluminum the heat would have been dissipated to the cone. but no heat. I even stuck my face in the vents of the enclosure to sense any burnt voice coils.
Nothing.....
Seems the 2ohm setup, even while using one voice coil per sub, is a great match for this amp.
I recommend NOT to use the Ti800.1 in 1ohm setup.

Thanks for your recommendations

[ttocs]

I will give them a month of playing with the titles you listed. Imagine going out to your handy v-8 and disconnecting half the spark plugs, throwing 3 of your fattest friends in the car and go hit the drag strip! That is basically what you are doing..... Why don't you sell the speakers for what you can get out of them now, take that cash and a little extra and get what would be appropriate to run? You are going to buy the same thing after these blow, you will just not have any cash to put forward to the new subs.

[wooferdog]

x2,i've seen the smoke from using 1 coil on a sub,most subs have the warning in the manual to not use just one coil.

[Eric D]

Most aluminum coned woofers still have a kapton voice coil former, or if they do have an aluminum one it is still glued onto the cone, and this junction does not conduct heat very well. Even if your cones are cool, this does not mean your coil will be as well.

If you have a 400W DVC woofer (200W a coil), and you run only one coil with 200W you should not have any issues, other than a lot less output over what the woofer is capable of doing. However, if you run one coil with 300W you will probably kill it.

The main concern here is the amp "cutting out". When an amp does this it means something is setup wrong.

If you run the Ti800.1 at 1 ohm mono and turn the gain down, it should not cut out, and you should get much more output than running it at 2 ohms with only one voice coil of each sub. I don't have specific experience with the Ti800.1, but pretty much any other PG amp can take a 1 ohm load (per channel, not bridged), and have no issues, so long as it is adjusted correctly.

[ttocs]

I would try adding some cooling or a fan for the amp before I ran one coil.

[Food4Woofers]

LOL You guys are probably right
The subs may end up as junk in a month
BUT
I wanna see how this turns out.
Im not in a rush to sell these.
And Ill probably replace these with a pair of Image Dynamics 12's

If these subs end up burnt Ill do 2 things. Sell the amp for a 2 channel version and
Get a pair of dual 4 ohm Image Dynamics subs and put them on the amp in stereo mode.

My history with the Ti series subs has come to this fact. No matter what amp Ive used on them they put a big stress on the amp at low loads. For instance
I had a Sony M3. Its 4 ohm mono stable at its lowest. I put a Ti15 single 4 ohm sub on it and the amp would shut off. The amp would get really hot and protect itself. I put a Image Dynamics 15, single 4 ohm sub on the same amp and the Sony ran cool and Jammed all day every day.
So I measured the voice coils on these Ti series subs. Not just the 15. I noticed the voice coils are a tad bit lower in value than other subs. So Im thinking the subs do actually go lower than 4 ohms with some bass notes and thats when the amp cuts off.
These 10's measured with the same results. A tad lower compared to another brand and same coil specs. Sure it may be a small tolerance thing with the Multimeter and the sub isnt moving so the value is kinda meaningless. I think Its just these particular Ti series subs that are making the amp cut off at 1 ohms.

Im having fun tinkering with this setup.
In a month or so Im curious to see/hear how the subs are doing. I have a feeling they will be just as strong and crispy clean as they are now. I also think Im going to seal the ports and check out the sound sealed. The box sizes on these DONT really change the sound much. The 15's I had were in huge 5ft3 ported boxes in my house. I plugged the port and didnt notice any difference in sound. I then stuck um in a 1.65ft3 sealed box in my car. They sounded the same. LOL The tens are just like the 15's. Ive tried them in walmart scosche boxes in ported and sealed. They sound about the same. Th eported boxes tend to give more low end but overall id say the sound is very close. So Ill be playing around with these for a while.

Im gonna be looking for a Ti seriies Line driver for the amp. There is a tantrum Line driver but it seems kinda high and plus its Tantrum not Titanium series. I kinda want the setup to stay one series.

Thanks again for the suggestions.
Its a nice day today. I think Ill go Jam now

[Food4Woofers]

I found the spec sheet for the Ti800.1 on google. Does anyone have the sheet for showing the Led codes?

I have no idea what the lights are for in the amp.
I just wanna know what they are for if they start going off suddenly.

Thanks