Battery

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:43 pm

What would cause my battery to die like this. Didn't drive my car Tuesday through Saturday evening-could be the prob but...It has been about 20-30 degrees in CT. My alarm has 2 blinking LEDs(one of which has a 20 mA draw from what it says on the package and it has a rapid blink-slow blink pattern). I also have a Tsunami Optima batterytop that has an LED that stays on constantly, no blinking or anything. I also have a blinking light on my pioneer headunit that comes on when u take off the faceplate.

If I didn't drive it all week, could those 4 LEDs have killed the battery that quickly?

Would it help to set like a turbo timer to give the alt a couple min to recharge the battery with everything off once I finish driving? I dunno if thatd be silly...

The Yellowtop I have is fairly new still. I just got it within 6 months ago. I auto started my car around 3 or 4 today, let it run for 15 min. just checked the battery voltage a minute ago and it is still resting at 12.05. I am gonna check it again tomorrow morn or afternoon before I drive it to see what it's at.

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:18 pm

Since 7 pm, it dropped from 12.05 volts to 11.95 volts. 2 hours, lost .10 volts. Is it the small draw of the alarm LEDs or do I have a bad battery?

Does anyone know what the average self-discharge is on a battery?

Would it help to throw a slow charger on the Optima tomorrow and just let it charge for 12 hours or something?

I would be very surprised if the battery was already gone...very frustrating.

Post by **Francious70** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:20 pm

I'd say the cold probably killed the bat.

How old is it?

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:22 pm

Got it in September. It is so expensive to buy new Optimas so I hope it was just the cold.

Hontzo_MD · Post by **Hontzo_MD** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:26 pm

Nothing should kill an optima in 5 months, there must be a drain somewhere.

If so, its well under warranty, get it replaced.

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:47 pm

Are the 4 LEDs I described above enough of a draw to kill it?

To get it taken care of under warranty, can I just bring it back to Pep Boys or do I need to do something through Optima?

gridracer · Post by **gridracer** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:05 pm

remove your negative battery cable place a test light between the cable end and the neg battery post if it lights up brightly you have a draw,start pulling fuses until it goes out and find the circuit that is drawing that way.

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:18 pm

Confused...put a test light between the neg cable end and the neg battery post?

Also, how does that show me there is a draw?

gridracer · Post by **gridracer** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:47 pm

because if there is a draw that test light will light up. just like i said in the other post

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:49 pm

I know what u said, so what you mean is the test light is seeing a current when it shouldn't be if it lights up when connected on the ground side...I got u. Can I do this with a multimeter? I don't have a test light. Any voltage reading through the multimeter would indicate a draw right?

What could possibly lead to a draw when the car is off? I have a relay between the front battery and the rear battery so no power should be getting pulled off my front battery when the ignition is off except for the LEDs unless I have a problem that I am unaware of with the relay.

Also again, would the 4 LEDs I mentioned earlier be enough of a draw after I hadn't driven the car for four days to kill the battery in 20 to 30 degree weather? The varad brand LED, 1 of the 2 LEDs connected through the alarm, has a 20mA draw, but I am not sure if that is the normal draw of an LED or an excessive draw.

dedlyjedly · Post by **dedlyjedly** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:33 am

Phoenixcolt wrote: Can I do this with a multimeter? I don't have a test light. Any voltage reading through the multimeter would indicate a draw right?

Yes, in fact it would be much more beneficial to use a dmm for testing current draw as a test light isn't nearly accurate enough to tell you much. That's because most vehicles will have a minimal current draw that is within an acceptable range. That range is typically between 30-50 milliamps, but can and will vary from vehicle to vehicle. The best way to test for a parasitic current draw is to take a reading and then open the suspected circuit and take another reading. If you see a major discrepancy between the two readings (consider the change as a percentage of the whole initial result) then you've likely identified a problem.

As stated before, you will wire the dmm in series between the negative battery post and negative battery cable. But, you won't be testing for voltage. You'll need to test for current (amperes) and this will require you to move the dmm test probe to the current position (which typically is rated to 10 amperes).

After you're finished be sure to move the dmm probe back to it's typical position! And DO NOT test for voltage while the dmm is in the current testing configuration!!!

As far as the battery dropping .10 volts over several hours I would assume it's just slowly dropping to it's resting voltage and wouldn't let it be cause for concern.

brenzbmr@sb · Post by **brenzbmr@sb** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:37 am

use a volt meter so you can actually see how many amps is being drawn off the battery

just a side note i had problems with optimas yellow tops in the past

they would just die. charge teh battery up and check your draw
let us know how many amps its drawing.

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:05 am

dedlyjedly wrote: As far as the battery dropping .10 volts over several hours I would assume it's just slowly dropping to it's resting voltage and wouldn't let it be cause for concern.

But it's resting voltage shouldn't be 11.xx should it? That seems really low for a batt. like this.

As far as testing, you said take a reading and then open the suspected circuit. Do you mean take a reading on the batt with the neg connected, and then disconnect the neg and take a reading? Or take my reading with the neg disconnected and try to narrow down the suspected draw after that? There can't be too many suspects.

If the battery was sitting at Pep Boys for months, and then I bought it, and didn't throw it on a charger immediately, is it possible it just needs a nice, long slow charge to get it back up to normal? I have heard before that these things will need a trickle charge to perform properly if they were drained pretty hard. Maybe the alt. just isn't doing as good of a job as a trickle charge would.

I am just throwing ideas out there. Thanks for helping me out.

nico boom · Post by **nico boom** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:16 am

the most common problem of a battery-problem like this, is a broken diode in the alternator. the alternator is constantly connected to the battery, and if a component fails [mostly a diode], it will constantly draw some current from your battery.
I would suggest, since you have a multimeter, to check if that meter has a AMP testmode on it, usually they have such a position, with about 5-10 amps range, and a apart socket for your + test pin.
disconnect the alt+ wire from your alternator [that's the largest in diameter], and between the ends, connect your multimeter. if there is current leaking to your alternator, you'll be able to see it on your scale.
watch for polarity, if you're not sure about polarity, just do the same, with the test-pins of you meter reversed. this will have no side-effects.
if this resultes in no reading, disconnect battery, and check voltage, then check again overnight. also feel for excessive warmt in the battery, or hissing sounds, due to a a small possable short-cicuit in the battery.
if all above fails to reveal the problem, check each cicuit of your car separately.[easiest in the fuse-box]. GOOD LUCK! nico.

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:25 am

Just went out there again to test the voltage. Didn't test the current yet but I still will tomorrow.

I put the DMM on the battery and got a reading of 11.73 but then within 30 seconds my reading was 11.97. I think I had an unstable ground the first 30 seconds.

I still have a hard time thinking it was ok that after only a week of no use, the battery died. Maybe the cold did it after all...I always thought cold was better for batteries though...why do people put AAs in the freezer???

I will check the current tomorrow and I am hoping there is no draw because I think it would be a pain to find the root of it.

Thanks again, I will keep you all posted.

nico boom · Post by **nico boom** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:34 am

forgot; those battery's don't like to see charging voltage under 14 volts.
charging goes best between 14- 15 volts.
check this with motor running and multimeter connected directly on the poles of the battery.
if voltage is high enough, have the amps checked, that your alternator delivers with a clamp-type of meter [easy to do].
if the alternator delivers the max. amount of amps continue;
charge batt. overnight with good [heavy] charger, and check again.
the same amount of amps= small internal battery short-circuit= buy a new one.
amps lower= alternator trouble, or current leak in one of the other electrical systems of your car, as mentioned before.
hope I explained it good enough, if you have troubles, you can also p.m me.
nico.

Post by **VW337** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:06 am

Batteries tend to fail when the temperature shifts drastically, If it has been cold this may be a possible factor.

4 LED's nothing to worry about, the draw there is nothing to worry about.

Two batteries you say, with a relay separating them? Check the second battery and the relay verify they are both in proper working order.

What features does your alarm have? Battery back-up siren? If so disable it, I recently had a similar problem as you describe and that was the issue in my situation.

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:35 am

The feature list on the Compustar spread spectrum does not indicate that it has a battery backup, however, I know if I pull the main plug out of the alarm brain it will set the siren off, though quiet. If not a battery backup, what is it? If it is a sort of internal battery backup, how would I disable it?

What would I be looking for as a problem from the relay to second battery? The relay just not islotaing the batteries properly? It is a 200 amp Stinger high current relay, the Sr200. It is also grounded into the Tsunami battery top. That shouldn't allow any power through at all unless the relay is activated and that can only be activated if the ignition is on. I wired that right into the ignition wire that is fused in the engine bay. I think I actually spoke with you guys on the forum on how to run that relay. That should be working properly if it is run the way I am describing right?

As far as the alternator goes, it is charging at about 14.5 volts so I do not think I have a problem there.

I tested the battery voltage at 12pm Eastern. Since it tested last night at 11.92, it dropped another .3 volts. I got about an 11.6 reading before I started and let it charge for a bit today.

As far as what Dedly Jelly told me to do I have another question. Keep in mind I have a Tsunami battery top so this isn't as ugly as it might sound. I have the original alternator grounds hooked up to my 200 amp alternator, and then a 4 gauge wire from the alternator ground to the battery ground post, then a main chassis 1/0 ground from the ground post to some sheetmetal in the engine bay.

To test for a draw I would have to disable the alternator to groundpost ground correct?

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:39 am

VW337 wrote: 4 LED's nothing to worry about, the draw there is nothing to worry about.

I just realized there is another LED on my foglight switch. So 2 blinking alarm LEDs, 1 with a 20mA draw, 2 steady nonblinking LEDs, 1 on the batt. top and 1 on the foglight switch, and 1 very small blinking LED that goes on when the faceplate is taken off of my headunit.

Is that still not enough draw to worry about?

Just making sure.

Post by **VW337** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:56 am

To test for a draw you will need to eliminate all connections to the battery, except the one you make with your Meter.

Does your alarm go off if you disconnect your battery? If so then you have a battery back-up. Locate it and check it for a draw.

5 LED's would be enough draw to kill a weak battery over a two week period. But shouldn't have a problem in under a week with a good battery.

The relay/solenoid you use to separate the batteries can pull enough current to kill your battery in the time you suggest if for some reason it is not disengaging.

dedlyjedly · Post by **dedlyjedly** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:01 am

Phoenixcolt wrote:
As far as what Dedly Jelly told me to do I have another question.

Beware of the smucker's grape! I'm a big man, but DAMN!

As Errin said, just make sure that every ground circuit is interrupted so that any current has to pass thru the meter

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:04 am

Haha my bad, no offense man, just trying to spell it from memory...

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:07 am

Looks like Errin might be right about the relay. Perhaps it is not disengaging.

If it is working properly, when the car is off, and the power wire to the relay is disconnected, I should not be able to read voltage behind the relay and ahead of the front battery right? I am reading voltage so it looks like the relay isn't working properly.

How does that happen? Bad ignition connection? I have it wired into the fused ignition wire in the engine bay. Is that actually a constant even though I assumed it was not?

Post by **VW337** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:53 pm

PM replied.

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:39 pm

Thanks to everyone. It did end up being the relay. I had it hooked into what I thought was the correct ignition wire but it turns out that that was a constant ignition wire. As soon as I disconnected, the voltage stopped coming through. Heard the relay engage and disengage when I took it off and put it back on. Left it off of course for now though. So I have been killing my Optima since September but at least now I know itll charge back up.

So at least it isn't the battery : ).

May have to talk to a shop about locating a correct ignition wire...

Would it be a bad idea to just hook it up to a constant but run it through a switch? That way it is only charging both batteries when I flip the switch. I mean I would pretty much always want it charging both but it couldn't hurt on a switch could it?

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