15F Powercore DOA

[dBincognito]

I don't see anything that impresses me in there

[stipud]

I guess the fact that I don't believe Alumapro or PG ever made a 15 or 20 farad capacitor...I mean, I see them.....I know they exist, I just don't believe they are 15 or 20 farad capacitors.

Believe it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerogel#Carbon_aerogels

Depending on the density, carbon aerogels may be electrically conductive, making composite aerogel paper useful for electrodes in capacitors or deionization electrodes. Due to their extremely high surface area, carbon aerogels are used to create supercapacitors, with values ranging up to thousands of farads based on a capacitance of 104 F/g and 77 F/cm³.

Many brands are selling 40+ farad aerogel capacitors now. They do have lower ESR than standard electrolytic caps however, so they are not as good at performing A/C ripple filtering.

I don't see anything that impresses me in there

You want me to put some Pokemon stickers on it or something?

I dunno about you, but this is pretty impressive to me:

Carbon aerogels are composed of particles with sizes in the nanometer range, covalently bonded together. They have very high porosity (over 50%, with pore diameter under 100 nm) and surface areas ranging between 400–1000 m²/g. They are often manufactured as composite paper: non-woven paper made of carbon fibers, impregnated with resorcinol-formaldehyde aerogel, and pyrolyzed.

[mhyde71]

interesting - i dunno what to do now.

I know one of the guys (have spoken once before and had good long chat nice guy) cant recall name... but feel confident that if they can help or shed some light they will.

i might call as well and see about getting in touch to that very sam guy. he sent me a new cover once for free and real cool about it!

[dBincognito]

Not buying it....I will leave it at that

[dBincognito]

I don't believe in caps to begin with though....for all fairness

[dBincognito]

I think of all the caps I have busted open and found nothing but rocks inside of it

[fuzzysnuggleduck]

Alumapro and PowerCore's.....2 funny.......

What's funny? Alumapro made the 15F capacitors for PG.

I guess the fact that I don't believe Alumapro or PG ever made a 15 or 20 farad capacitor...I mean, I see them.....I know they exist, I just don't believe they are 15 or 20 farad capacitors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercapacitor

[dBincognito]

It's ok guys....I just don't believe in capacitors....I think the only purpose they serve is to filter noise.....and I can buy better things for that than capacitors

[dBincognito]

I have done A/B runs....so there won't be any changing my mind.

[chaplin]

I just wrote a mail to Alumapro, referring to this topic, and asked if they could supply a sollution/option??

The cap15 looks exactly like the PCore

I have the first version of the CAP15 of Alumapro. On the other hand, he cannot be opened. I hope that he has no same problem as you...

My version has no relay inside. Maybe it is also of in the relay?

[fuzzysnuggleduck]

I have done A/B runs....so there won't be any changing my mind.

I'm not trying to change your mind about the value of a capacitor in a system, I'm just saying that 15 and 20 and much higher farad capacitors exist. They aren't "fake", they really do have that capacitance.

[Pedi]

Pedi

I prefer Kinetic instead of Optima...

That's funny, you prefer your batteries to have amp limits and the ability to explode

I do not understand what you mean here? My Kinetic batteries are top notch, and a totally another league than Optima IMO. I have been using Optima for a decade, and suddenly Kinetic opened my eyes into a new world of amperage...

[dBincognito]

I have done A/B runs....so there won't be any changing my mind.

I'm not trying to change your mind about the value of a capacitor in a system, I'm just saying that 15 and 20 and much higher farad capacitors exist. They aren't "fake", they really do have that capacitance.

I can agree with that....I might have started writing before I had coffee this morning

[stipud]

Not buying it....I will leave it at that

I don't believe in caps to begin with though....for all fairness

I think of all the caps I have busted open and found nothing but rocks inside of it

It's ok guys....I just don't believe in capacitors....I think the only purpose they serve is to filter noise.....and I can buy better things for that than capacitors

I have done A/B runs....so there won't be any changing my mind.

I can agree with that....I might have started writing before I had coffee this morning

Man you spam a lot . Seriously though... you need to condense multiple thoughts into a single post. If you think of something immediately after posting, just edit it into your original post . It's a forum not instant messenger . Hell I edit most of my posts a couple times after I re-read them.

As for not believing in capacitors... well, I don't believe in republicans, but there's no denying that they exist. . From the wikipedia article I posted, the carbon aerogel technology has been refined enough that only one cubic centimeter of material can offer 77 farads of capacitance. However, these high densities can currently only be used at low voltages right now, as higher voltages can cause ionization. Still, it's not too far fetched that a block MUCH larger than one cubic centimeter can offer only 15 F at 14V.

I have no doubts that capacitors didn't work A/B in your install. I am not trying to convince you that they would work. However, I am urging you and others to reconsider your blanket statements that capacitors are completely useless. We all agree that they are useless as a bandaid for a weak power network, however, they would serve a purpose in a system that is properly equipped for one.

As I stated above, the systems that benefit the most would be set up very differently, i.e. a 200 amp alternator to feed only a small amplifier, in order to ensure that power is never an issue. To hear the difference you might even need "golden ears", but come on... we talk about how great certain types of transistors and resistors sound... why are farad capacitors excluded from this?

I am especially perplexed that freshkryp feels this way about capacitors, because he plans to use a large bank of audiophile grade capacitors in his amplifiers. If he realizes the value inside the amp, why are they immediately useless outside of one?? They are obviously useless in HIS install, since he runs many more amplifiers than any normal alternator could realistically support. Therefore, batteries are the obvious choice for him. This does not mean that capacitors are useless everywhere, for everyone else as well.

[Stryker]

I have a 35 farad Stinger I'm going to be using in my new install. I also have the necessary power upgrades in place. I do think they help for sound quality and somewhat the bass hits but not so much. If I could I would use multiple Batcaps instead but i need trunk space, and I already have the 35 farad cap in my basement. For SPL caps are a drain, but SQ they have a use. IMHO.

[Eric D]

I am not going to read this whole thread as it looks like another cap war which happens all the time in car audio. But, all I can say is for those of you who do not believe caps do anything, please feel free to remove the input caps on your amps and the rail caps while you are at it. Then report back with how much better your amp works…

[Pedi]

But, all I can say is for those of you who do not believe caps do anything, please feel free to remove the input caps on your amps and the rail caps while you are at it. Then report back with how much better your amp works…

Thank you, but I do not think everybody will be convinced with this answer either...

[ttocs]

I curious what the audible difference is in a properly tuned system with no cap, and that SAME system WITH a cap. What does filtering the ac ripple buy ya?

[stipud]

I curious what the audible difference is in a properly tuned system with no cap, and that SAME system WITH a cap. What does filtering the ac ripple buy ya?

It make things easier on the powersupply, which allows it to create more power for the output section. Also, A/C ripple makes radiated noise... ergo alternator whine

[dBincognito]

I am not going to read this whole thread as it looks like another cap war which happens all the time in car audio. But, all I can say is for those of you who do not believe caps do anything, please feel free to remove the input caps on your amps and the rail caps while you are at it. Then report back with how much better your amp works…

I'm not saying they don't do anything....but caps vs. batteries is no battle....and considering how CHEAP dry cell batteries have become....I just can't see using a capacitor as being cost effective for the SMALL amount of difference it will actually make....even with the best contacts, the shortest runs of wire, the best grounding.....batteries are always going to be a better choice. As far as space in the trunk goes....they make batteries that are no bigger than these caps are...so to me...buying a capacitor is a complete waste of money, the only real benefit is stable voltage....which if you had the proper amount of power needed to begin with, would not be a problem.

[longboard]

so what happens when you have the best possible battery then?

[dBincognito]

so what happens when you have the best possible battery then?

Less voltage drop(if any)....when Christian came over to my house, his whole trunk needed to be re-wired....and he is using a cap in the trunk while he has a Stinger battery laying around doing nothing

You should determine how many batteries you will need long before you think about installing

Just my "opinion"

[stipud]

I'm not saying they don't do anything....but caps vs. batteries is no battle....and considering how CHEAP dry cell batteries have become....I just can't see using a capacitor as being cost effective for the SMALL amount of difference it will actually make....even with the best contacts, the shortest runs of wire, the best grounding.....batteries are always going to be a better choice. As far as space in the trunk goes....they make batteries that are no bigger than these caps are...so to me...buying a capacitor is a complete waste of money, the only real benefit is stable voltage....which if you had the proper amount of power needed to begin with, would not be a problem.

Let's qualify that a bit...

When it comes to power STORAGE, there's definitely no competition. But using a capacitor for power storage is like taking a hooker to the movies... that's not what you use them for

If your system has a strong enough alternator to run your whole car and amplifiers at the same time, with no voltage sag, then adding batteries would be useless. They would only be used for starting your car. In this case, more batteries would be a power drain. Adding a cap would decrease ripple, and make your system sound better (assuming you've got an IASCA quality car).

Now if your alternator isn't big enough to run your whole system, which is the case in most cars, then a capacitor would just be a drain on the system. In this case, having a better battery helps. They act as power storage, and can produce high amperage for short bursts -- basically, batteries do what people think capacitors do. However, since the battery operates at 12v, you do lose voltage every time you are forced to drain from the battery, compared to the alternator, so it is not ideal. However, considering the large kilowatt amps used in most systems, it is unrealistic to have an alternator that can power them without sagging.

Now, if you have a crappy battery along with an insufficient alternator, you will get LOTS of voltage sag, since the battery can't keep up with the current draw either. In this case, having a better battery will reduce the voltage sag substantially, but it can not be eliminated since it MUST run at a lower voltage than the alternator (otherwise it wouldn't charge).

[GX3]

I just wrote a mail to Alumapro, referring to this topic, and asked if they could supply a sollution/option??

The cap15 looks exactly like the PCore

don't expect a response..... i emailed them a few times about one of there caps that i owned and I never heard a word from them. I drilled the rivets out and pulled the back off and it look about like the same kind of goo as the both of yours

[longboard]

hope the 2 al ones i have here are ok dont wanna look inside now