what do you think of the jl 12IB4 or old style free air sub

[kg1961]

I just got my Acura and there is not alot of trunk space. I want bass but not to take up space
Im thinking free air or Infinite Baffle
I know they are not as good as sealed but
I hate fiber glassing
let me know what you have use or have heard that was good
my amps I have is PH15 A/D/S or phoenix gold ti 400.2 x2 and a zx600.2
orion hcca 225r and 250r
items 12wIB4 or kicker free air 12c

[ttocs]

in my opinion there is no better way to make a 12 sound like an 8 then to make it free air.

[stipud]

IB only works if you really seal your trunk off from your cabin. This means if you have folding rear seats, you would probably lose that ability.

I think the older model TL's have an IB 8"... not sure about yours. Perhaps you could do something similar to my car. I have a normal sub in an easily removed enclosure, but I also have some 6x9 subs in my parcel shelf running IB that I can switch on when I take the sub out. They aren't installed well enough to run all the time, but are sufficient for having a little bump on camping trips or when I have to move big stuff.

[stipud]

in my opinion there is no better way to make a 12 sound like an 8 then to make it free air.

Free air, sure, but a proper infinite baffle install is no quieter than sealed.

[kg1961]

the car rear seat don't go down but yes it does have the crappy 8" ib sub.
I like you idea tom but I only want to run a amp for the sub there is to much with the stock deck that I would lose changing it
I can make or buy a piece of plexi to fit the seat area seal it
but what do you think?
I guess I can still do fiber glass on the driver side and make a box

[stipud]

Really, with IB you would be cutting up your shelf, or you would have to make a wooden shelf below it, which would probably eat trunk space anyways. So I would recommend a decent 8" IB sub that you can power from your sub amp whenever you remove your real enclosure for trunk room. Then a cheapo prefab box is just fine in that case. Of course fiberglass on the side of your trunk is also an option and probably easier than doing a proper IB setup anyways.

In my car I also kept the stock deck because it is well integrated, but I tapped into the pre-outs and run my front stage from my Ti500.4. The rear speakers are still amplified off the stock amp. Works fantastic!

[kg1961]

shit now the sub I think I will use a pre fad first than make a fiberglass box
Tom I know what your going say about the subs you love
but I don't know
I own 2 tantaum svc 12 are they any good???

[Eric D]

I installed this over 10 years ago in my mom's car, it took second place in a local stereo competition, and to this day has the best bass I have ever heard in a vehicle. You are not going to win any SPL competitions with 12IB8s, but I doubt you will find a better setup for flat bass response to very low frequencies, with high speed punch to keep up with a lot of rock.

[stipud]

shit now the sub I think I will use a pre fad first than make a fiberglass box
Tom I know what your going say about the subs you love
but I don't know
I own 2 tantaum svc 12 are they any good???

Tantrum (all black with a PG logo in the middle) or Tantrum-X (shiny with a tantrum style grille in the middle). I haven't heard the original Tantrums, but I have heard the Tantrum-X. They are ok... kinda like the Ti's but not as powerful.

I think you and everyone else needs an RSDC

[vin78]

in my opinion there is no better way to make a 12 sound like an 8 then to make it free air.

Then I guess you never heard a real IB set-up then.

They can get quite loud and be able dig low as hell. But you do lose that tight impact from sealed enclosures tho.

[kg1961]

see I love that set up 2 posts up easy clean
I have a chance to buy 2 12IB4 8ohms nib
yes tom mine are the all black one no silver
shit time to think
I don' want spl but more info on your set up please
what kind of car? what else did you do to set it up ?

[andy600rr]

Those old JL IB woofers were the shiz-nit. IB can sound fantastic providing that steps are taken to seal the trunk from the interior space as much as possible. The added bonus is that you should'nt need 20gazillion watts to run it either

I'd love to find a pair of 10's for cheap to sit in my cupboard for a rainy day.

[Eric D]

I have a friend with a pair of Lanzar OA-10s which last I knew are in great condition. He might be willing to sell them.

Most of you are probably laughing at my post, but some of you are old enough to know what speakers I am talking about, and remember the glory days of Lanzar.

[dBincognito]

Eric D

remember the glory days of Lanzar.

I hate the look of their amps....just like ADCOM.....but you can't deny the sound coming from them....no matter how much you might want 2

[ttocs]

in my opinion there is no better way to make a 12 sound like an 8 then to make it free air.

Then I guess you never heard a real IB set-up then.

They can get quite loud and be able dig low as hell. But you do lose that tight impact from sealed enclosures tho.

lets be honest people. IB set ups are a situation where form follows function. People do not go out and build audiophile quality systems with IB because no matter how great it sounds in IB, it could always sound better with a regular enclosure. There is nothing wrong with the idea, but given the choice myself, and most of you would opt for some kind of small enclosure.

[Eric D]

Huh?

In the 90's many of the winning IASCA installs were IB. Several of which did well with SPL at the time also, but used many IB woofers to get the needed output.

Today we have huge amps, and therefore we need huge and inefficient woofers for these amps. Couple that with the fact that 99% of the great IB woofers from back in the day are all now dead due to dry rotting of the surround, or abuse from their owners, and there is no longer any supply for an IB market. Plus, fold down seats probably helped seal their fate.

If I ever had a non fold down rear seat car I would go IB way before I would use a box, but that would only be if I could find a decent modern woofer which works IB.

Some of the very best home audio equipment made today uses IB sub systems (and yes this car audio is different, so you have me on that one, but still, IB is not crap by any means)

[andy600rr]

I agree with Eric, but can also understand what ttocs is saying.

Personally, I'd build an enclosure for pretty much every driver on the market since its performance will generally benifit markedly from doing so.

BUT, if you had heard the original JL IB subs in a correctly set environment, you would understand why Eric & myself are fans. I installed lots of woofers IB back in the early-mid 90's since thats what was the all the rage back then and it was sometimes difficult to explain to a customer just how much better the equipment could sound in a properly designed box. They had their judgement clouded by magazine ad's showing 'Free Air' installs and the customers thought they could get the same results without taking up any trunk space.

The Lanzars are one of the few that I hav'nt used, but out of everything I installed IB, only one woofer passed my listenings test....... JL IB.

These drivers were GOOD.

[dedlyjedly]

in my opinion there is no better way to make a 12 sound like an 8 then to make it free air.

Running a driver free-air is NOT the same as Infinite Baffle. And just to clarify your sub size comparison...you will generally reduce power handling and output levels using IB as compared to a standard sealed enclosure, but it will also typically flatten the frequency response and maximize low frequency extension. Whether that is better or worse depends on your priorities for the system.

IB isn't easy to achieve in most vehicles as has been previously mentioned in this thread. And to top it off, it really doesn't save you any space. You can't just plan to fill your trunk to the brim and expect it to perform optimally. IB design is dependent on that huge amount of air space. People don't realistically attempt IB for the convenience. In fact, IB is some pretty tweaky shit in the car audio world that only the pickiest of listeners even attempt to accomplish. I'm not saying its the bee's knees for everyone or even every application, infact it's not for most of us. But saying that it can not sound good or that a sealed enclosure will always sound better simply reveals a lack of comprehension of this topic.