Back to the Drawing Board: Amps Still Clipping

Post by **AVICJR** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:22 pm

My (2) X600.1's running one Ti Elite 12d are still clipping. I need a list of what I need to test to assure proper power is being distributed throughout.

This is what I've done so far:

0 gauge(+) and (-) to dist. blocks, 4 gauge to each amp. (+) ran from battery. (-) grounded in trunk.3 total amps

New 220 Amp HO alternator w/ 4 gauge wire from battery Will replace with 0 gauge tomorrow.

New Optima Yellowtop battery

0 gauge ground from battery to engine block

No line driver, HU puts out 5 volts. I bought a TLD66 but have yet to install it. Was hoping to get away w/o it.

1 set of RCA's from HU to TX406 Xover. 1 RCA to amp for highs. 1 RCA to sub amps from RCA out of one sub amp into the other amp.

Post by **mr tibbs** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:40 pm

Damnit man, I thought this was taken care of with the grounding stuff. I'm out of ideas man, I hope someone here can help you out. Maybe go spend a night at a Holiday Inn.

Post by **stipud** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:48 pm

Have you tried running the sub in parallel off of one amp? Try it on each, and see if the problem is related to one of the amps, or both.

Post by **AVICJR** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:52 pm

stipud wrote:Have you tried running the sub in parallel off of one amp? Try it on each, and see if the problem is related to one of the amps, or both.

Would this make both amps clip? Sometimes it's one, or the other or both that clip.

I'll try it but it will be pretty damn hard to get the sub out now. I have a Mustang so space is tight back there.

What all do I need to test with a DMM?

vin78 · Post by **vin78** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:07 pm

Have you checked the gains using a DMM?

I would try installing the LD.

I know what you mean by the small trunk opening of the Mustang...its a bitch. When I used to install I hated working on Mustang trunks.

Post by **stipud** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:16 pm

AVICJR wrote:I'll try it but it will be pretty damn hard to get the sub out now. I have a Mustang so space is tight back there.

What all do I need to test with a DMM?

You don't have to take the sub out. Just disconnect the speaker wire at one amp, and move it over to the other one. Bada-boom-bada-bing.

Post by **AVICJR** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:31 pm

I will try that stipud, but why would both amps be clipping if only one is malfunctioning?

Post by **mr tibbs** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:12 pm

AVICJR wrote:I will try that stipud, but why would both amps be clipping if only one is malfunctioning?

It's the fact that it's not always the same amp that goes into protect that is messing me up. I don't understand why it's not the same one every time. Have you always had them grounded in the same spot, by that I mean were they grounded together in the same spot?

What I'm getting at is that it almost sounds like there is a master/slave ground problem going on. Usually this happens when there is a big amp and a smaller amp and the big one hogs the ground and the little one starves. It almost sounds like that problem but since the amps are the same there is no master or slave and it just picks one at random because they are both using the same ground.

I don't know man, I'm just thinking out loud here. Sorry if this isn't helping.

Post by **stipud** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:20 pm

Have you tried reversing one of the sets of speaker leads as well? It's possible that a set of terminals is mislabeled, and a + ends up actually being the - terminal.

Also try a different speaker if you have one.

Post by **AVICJR** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:21 pm

Yes, grounded in the same spot. Actually it's the same exact spot that I've used for ground for my M series amps since I bought the car new in 96. I sanded the spot bigger to accommodate the bigger ground lug.

Post by **mr tibbs** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:26 pm

AVICJR wrote:Yes, grounded in the same spot. Actually it's the same exact spot that I've used for ground for my M series amps since I bought the car new in 96. I sanded the spot bigger to accommodate the bigger ground lug.

What M series? Are the x600.1's bigger?

Post by **AVICJR** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:28 pm

stipud wrote:Have you tried reversing one of the sets of speaker leads as well? It's possible that a set of terminals is mislabeled, and a + ends up actually being the - terminal.

Also try a different speaker if you have one.

At lower levels it sounds fine though. Every now and then it will let me crank them up w/o sending them into protect and sounds pretty damn good and then it just can't handle it anymore and will send one into protect.

I have checked the polarity on the amps at least a trillion times. Remember the speaker terminals on the Ti were turned around and it wouldn't play at all. Then I disassembled it and assembled it correctly and "voila" sound.

Post by **AVICJR** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:30 pm

mr tibbs wrote:
AVICJR wrote:Yes, grounded in the same spot. Actually it's the same exact spot that I've used for ground for my M series amps since I bought the car new in 96. I sanded the spot bigger to accommodate the bigger ground lug.
What M series? Are the x600.1's bigger?

Hell yeah, one Xenon is nearly double the power. 1 M25 and 1 M50. I did have one of the X600.1's in to run my other sub. And it worked fine then.

Post by **mr tibbs** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:34 pm

To me it really seems like a grounding problem. I know you have upgraded the power and grounds under the hood as well. I think it's time to grab a DMM and start taking some measurements.

Maybe somebody (anybody) smarter than me can chime in and help you out. That is about all I can think right now. I wish I was closer and I could come over there and take a look.

1moreamp · Post by **1moreamp** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:09 pm

I'm not smarter by a long shot, but here it goes.

I have questions. Does this problem exist when you run either amp alone ?
Either amp, with no regard for which one ?

If the answer to the above is yes, then its not the amps. It might be still power related some how.

you might have to connect a voltmeter right at the amps power connections via sample wires of say 14 to 16 gauge and measure a delta min-max readings. I recommend a Fluke model 97 or better. It has the delta min-max function to catch the high and the low sags in your 12 volt supply.
Directly at the terminals on the amp is best for this sort of test.

Are you running any caps or bat-stat caps, or carbon alloy caps, etc..?

How many battery's are you running? and how much max power of all amps do you have total?

I realize this is like 20 questions, but not being there I need to know these things to try and picture what might be causing your issues.

PM or e-mail me if you like, if you want to. C

Post by **VW337** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:15 pm

Get extensions on your DMM read the resistance between your ground point and your negative Battery post (not the terminal). Let us know what the resistance is. I suspect we have a ground issue here as both amps are being affected not just one.

Do you have a Capacitor in the system?

.....I am thinking on this and it hurts.

Post by **AVICJR** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:24 pm

I just grounded the battery to the engine block yesterday with 0 gauge. I checked the voltage on the battery and amps.

Engine off: 12.9 at battery, 12.8 at amps

Engine on: 14.2 at battery, 14.0 at amps

I currently do not have a capacitor.

I am thinking about grounding my dist. block in trunk to battery up front with 0 gauge. I'm hoping this will help some.

I am considering a bat cap, just in case I find out that I do need extra "juice".

Post by **smgreen20** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:13 pm

stipud wrote:
AVICJR wrote:I'll try it but it will be pretty damn hard to get the sub out now. I have a Mustang so space is tight back there.

What all do I need to test with a DMM?
........ Bada-boom-bada-bing.

Beakman!

Post by **VW337** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:08 pm

Mando, I know you have taken voltage readings.

Again what is the resistance between the negative post, actual post not terminal, and your amps ground point?

Post by **AVICJR** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:24 am

VW337 wrote:

Again what is the resistance between the negative post, actual post not terminal, and your amps ground point?

Will get it for you soon.

Post by **AVICJR** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:56 pm

After reading more on the resistance of the ground spots.

Linky

I have decided that it can't hurt to send a 0 gauge from my ground dist. block in my trunk back up the battery. I grounded my battery to the engine block on Fri. with 0 gauge.

This may not totally fix my problem, but it may help some.