PG Update ??

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dBincognito
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Post by dBincognito »

Francious70
but it has a bad image

Probably b/c they use higher tolerance parts.....total turn-off for me


The quality of PG amps is still above the norm though on most other companies....the build quality is still there, and they do sound good....for the price, but they are far from being audiophile grade

I would consider the current PG line to be intermediate....above entry level....but certainly not pro
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Post by fuzzysnuggleduck »

dBincognito wrote:Francious70
but it has a bad image

Probably b/c they use higher tolerance parts.....total turn-off for me
I'm not certain their image is affected by the tolerance of the internal components. How many buyers even know that internal components have a specific tolerance?

But I agree, RSd amps are NOT audiophile. They aren't built as such, they aren't marketed as such and their price point certainly isn't as such.

I do believe however that by making the RSd amps affordable, PG did tarnish their image. I don't know if that's true or not, but that's the feeling I get. People see the price tag and assume it must not be good. Again, just my speculation.

Of course, I won't make arguments against making this stuff affordable. I just get the feeling from many people interested in car audio that they see RSd amps as entry level quality because of the price point.
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stipud
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Post by stipud »

You guys are hilarious. I personally like getting my money's worth, instead of the "prestige" of knowing that I spent more. I base the quality of the amp on the quality of the amp alone. If it's cheaper, that just means I got more for my dollar.

The only resounding criticism of the RSD speakers that I have heard is that they don't cost enough :roll:. We all know they are the best bang for the buck out there right now. The press and audio forums have caught on to this, and there are plenty of good reviews of them. I'd say that on the whole it's the best speaker line PG has put together, ESPECIALLY considering the low price point.

As for individual amp part tolerances, I haven't taken an RSD apart, but I do know the Xenon line used better parts than the Ti series at least. So what are you basing that off of Randy? The RSD line was supposed to be a Tantrum level replacement. And it is a big improvement at that price point. We were supposed to get another top-tier amp, but PG ran out of money before it could be released.

While we're ranting, I guess I will express my concerns with PG as of late:
- Blingy cosmetics not befitting of premium amplifiers (this is the only reason I run Ti and not Xenon). A premium amp needs to be classy and understated. Putting the latest offerings against the rest of the premium market is like taking Don Magic Juan to the Nobel banquet. The Roadster 66 showed that PG could still design a sweet, classy looking amp... it really makes me wish they had another chance to create a suitable Xenon replacement.

- High grey market availability. If you're going to leak your amps out on eBay, then you should stop ignoring the elephant in the room, and offer warranties on ALL sales. Include the warranty in the base distributor cost of the amp, which will increase grey market costs, thereby pushing people back to their dealers. They will pay a convenience charge to buy local, but when your amps are available online without warranty for half the price, something is wrong.

- Poor QC on the Xenon line tarnished reputation and made people skeptical of overseas manufacturing.

- Grey market online sales with no warranties on the Xenon amps made for a perfect storm of internet bitching. The market has changed since the 90's, but only because it has moved online. It was argued earlier in this thread that there are no more audiophiles, but I disagree... they just moved out of the car shows, and onto their computers. There is a HUGE grassroots internet audiophile culture. What the internet says about your product is something you can't ignore... this should be your prime exposure medium. The discerning audiophiles are all here or on places like DIYMA talking about individual part tolerances... so if you want to make MS amps again, you need to find them and tell them about it.

- Not making a proper top-line Xenon replacement first, before making a middle-line. In order to remove the Xenon tarnish, PG needed an amp that could re-establish their credibility. Something as technically robust as the Xenon line, while having good reliability.
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dwnrodeo
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Post by dwnrodeo »

I'm going to agree with just about everything you said above Stipud but must ask how you consider the Xenon series to be "blingy". In my opinion they are just as subtle as the Ti series except with aluminum that doesn't rust compared to the steel that the Ti series is famous/infamous for. Ti line had the tri-leds, Xenon had one led in a bezel, both brushed metal look.
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Post by Francious70 »

Personally, I thought the Xenon amps were some of the best looking amps around. I was not in the car audio scene when the MS and MPS series came out showing off the internals, but I don't need to be able to see the internals, I just care about the sound
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stipud
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Post by stipud »

dwnrodeo wrote:I'm going to agree with just about everything you said above Stipud but must ask how you consider the Xenon series to be "blingy". In my opinion they are just as subtle as the Ti series except with aluminum that doesn't rust compared to the steel that the Ti series is famous/infamous for. Ti line had the tri-leds, Xenon had one led in a bezel, both brushed metal look.
Cosmetics are pretty subjective I guess. I quite like the look of the Xenons aside from the rubber endcaps. Their brushed aluminum finish looks marvelous in person... leaps and bounds nicer than Ti. However I think the Ti line just looks more utilitarian and rugged for whatever reason. You are right though, I should give the Xenon line more credit. They seem to be built much better and don't have the flimsiness that my Ti chassis have. Still, their cosmetics caused quite a stir on the PG forum when the amp line was being released, so there must be something tangible missing.

So I must admit I lied... cosmetics is not the ONLY reason I don't run them. The major concern with the Xenon in my install is amp size. The Ti500.4 is much smaller than an X100.4. Also, I am anal about matching, and the Xenon speaker line wasn't nearly as good as the Ti setup. Anyways, it didn't fit my car, but I wouldn't hesitate running a (worked over) Xenon in my future installs.

As for RSDs though... the shape is too weird to integrate nicely. And the Octane-R's just ain't my cuppa tea... not that I was the intended target anyways. We can leave it at that.
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dBincognito
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Post by dBincognito »

I like the look of the Xenon with the Onyx cover

Don't care for the look of the RSD amps

I like the Ti's, with the aluminum is the best

But I love the shrouded MS
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Post by Pedi »

Sorry for giving an input here, but in my eyes, the porn itself is the sight of the internals of MS-series in an install...

(Or maybe it is just me that is anal, Stipud?? :wink: )
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Post by mhyde71 »

Pedi wrote:Sorry for giving an input here, but in my eyes, the porn itself is the sight of the internals of MS-series in an install...

(Or maybe it is just me that is anal, Stipud?? :wink: )
i concur! werd-up homy!
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