ALT FRIED (edit) replaced w/ new, still trble NOW VID's

Post by **mhyde71** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:52 pm

addit update:

car has sat for about an hour... engine cool down able to touch w/ bare hands...but alt is still very very hot.

whats that about?

maybe the two wires i hooked up were/are reversed? i dunno...

imma gonna call power bastards and see what they have to say, but i think they are going to say, shoot the alt back and they will open it up or fix etc.

geesus! not one thing it's another...

BUT curious to know if anyone else has heard of or seen a -amp reading when loaded and + amp reading when not loaded heavily

Post by **ttocs** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:06 pm

are they sure they had the amp meter hooked up correctly?

Post by **mhyde71** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:11 pm

thats what I said?!?!?!?

We actually did it twice.

The first run, we did not run stereo- not what so ever... and alt prooved to be just fine

then, i said Hey, when the device called for a load (head lights, ac, etc...), lets jam the stereo and really put a load on it... he said okay, and we did test again... that was when we got those results... OTHERWISE, w/o stereo all jammed out, test results were perfectly fine per the results.

gridracer · Post by **gridracer** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:54 pm

mr tibbs wrote: From what I understand if you use a yellow top as a primary starting battery you will burn it up pretty quick.

When I was choosing a battery for using to start my vehicle optima told me to use a yellow top and it lasted 10 years starting my truck. I know that its deep cycle and what they are intended for but after telling optima my system specs and other current draw needs that is the one they recommended

Post by **mhyde71** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:58 pm

i have red top under the hood, and eyeballing a yellow top to be included here shortly.

but the -46.3amps is what has me baffled!

Stryker · Post by **Stryker** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:07 pm

thats very odd. my alt always puts out more when cold around 14.7-14.8, then gradually drops to 14.1 when engine warms it up. how you can get - load is beyond me.

Post by **mhyde71** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:01 pm

here is copy of results print out...maybe someone sees/knows/can interupt it differently...

m

dBincognito · Post by **dBincognito** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:07 pm

9.7 amps with no load ?

That makes no sense at all

The amps aren't right at all

You should get this at minimum

14.6v
110+ AMPS @ Idle
220+ AMPS @ 1200RPM and up

Post by **mhyde71** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:18 pm

and whats more a positive amp reading with no stereo, and a negative amp reading with stereo bumping....
i would think all shit would shut the fuck down with -46 amps (or whatever it was)>?!?!?<
yeah, it's fucked still ---- think im just gonna check into the psyco house for treatment

Stryker · Post by **Stryker** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:21 pm

voltage regulator would be my guess.

Post by **mhyde71** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:23 pm

kinda what i think too, regulator regulator regulator regulator regulator regulator ... but something seems a lil more fishy than that... now i might stupid, but would a bad regulator net these results?

m

Post by **ttocs** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:01 pm

you upgraded the alt, did you upgrade your power wires to the alt?

Have you started simple and checked grounds and such?

Post by **mhyde71** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:05 pm

ttocs wrote:you upgraded the alt, did you upgrade your power wires to the alt?

Have you started simple and checked grounds and such?

yeah, absolutely... in fact this is second HO alt in there, the first one burned out and lead to all this headache. just doesnt make sense.

Post by **ttocs** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:04 am

I would really question that negative reading. How did they do the test did they use an inductive coil that clamped around the power wire or did they disconnect the battery and put their tool in series? The inductive coil has arrows on it that show which what it needs to be hooked up, it could have been done wrong.

I would recomend a 2nd opinion/test.... IF you have backwards current in there somehow you have bigger problems then the 16v.

And again you are confident that the ground you upgraded too is solid and you have tested it? Paint scraped, everything is clean? I can think of one truck we did that we all kinds of strange electrical gremlins in. We upgraded the factory ground to 0 awg and found a great place to ground it to the frame, super solid! The combination of rubber body mounts and rusted frame bolts made the frame fairly isolated from the chassis and our upgraded ground useless.

Post by **mhyde71** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:24 am

ttocs wrote:I would really question that negative reading. How did they do the test did they use an inductive coil that clamped around the power wire or did they disconnect the battery and put their tool in series? The inductive coil has arrows on it that show which what it needs to be hooked up, it could have been done wrong.

I would recomend a 2nd opinion/test.... IF you have backwards current in there somehow you have bigger problems then the 16v.

And again you are confident that the ground you upgraded too is solid and you have tested it? Paint scraped, everything is clean? I can think of one truck we did that we all kinds of strange electrical gremlins in. We upgraded the factory ground to 0 awg and found a great place to ground it to the frame, super solid! The combination of rubber body mounts and rusted frame bolts made the frame fairly isolated from the chassis and our upgraded ground useless.

they had a device that had two leads to each + & - and a claw like clamp that went around the GROUND wire... I actually questioned that, b/c i thought i had seen it go around the positive wire once before, but the battery (i think) may have been turned around so the pos was on the left versus on the right like mine is now. but he assured me that it was supposed to go around the grounding cable from battery.

like i said we did two tests. the first netted perfect results, but i didnt jam stereo on, second test is what you guys see above (w/ stereo jammed).

I feel confident about the wiring upgrades as i did those last summer and worked out w/ no problems ever since. but did check them again last night and all looks to be clean, connected and firm.

I will say this that on way to work this morning... the highest i saw it get (w/ stereo bumped) was 15.5/15.2. So i haven't seen the 16+ since yesterday, maybe it was that particular track i was playing but i wouldn't think that would have so so much to do with it. although it didn't go over 15.2/15.5 today, it was still all over the board... from 12.2 up to 15.2... maybe thats okay, but would have thought that it wouldn't be quite like that IOW that much variance...

2nd opinion this evening @ same location, but different guy, i will say that i changed some wires and lets do a follow up test. think my buddy that is fairly knowledgeable about this stuff works today over there...otherwise i will bring to the local alt/starter shop next town over.- if same results this evening.

still appreciate any input, suggestions, etc...

Post by **mhyde71** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:15 am

just so we're all on same page or whatever, here is what the mfg said to do as a troubleshooting method/process:

Here is what we can do as a simple test to rule the truck and it’s wiring out of the equation. Jump the ‘S’ wire coming out of the alternator directly to the positive post on the back of the alternator. Leave the ‘S’ wire from the truck hanging, but temporarily tape it up because it will be hot with the key on. This will essentially make the alternator self exciting and easier to troubleshoot. The only negative side effect to hooking it up like this is possible battery drain when the truck is off. If we determine the alternator charges fine hooked up like this then you will need to find an IGN 12v+ source to power the alternator instead of a 12v+ always on source and the battery will not drain when the truck is turned off.

Let me know how that works. Thanks,
Mike

Post by **mhyde71** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:16 pm

just walked in from second test w/ different guy and stuff (same spot/device) but whatever...AND alternator passed, HOWEVER, I didn't jam stereo to full throttle... but did have it on about 25%/35% (goes to 40 the volume)- and had it up to 15 where it still rumbled, and passed w/ flying colors. 14.7 no load, 14.3 loaded and 3.47 amps no load, and 3.47 loaded - which I am a little sketable about... i would think the amperage would go up with 3 ms-series amps jumping about... but it passed- and guy there said to test alternator, really all that is required is high beams and A/C...

still gonna go get a thrid opinion... BUT maybe we're okay???

oh well... maybe alternator just had to be broken in??
what say yous guys! (we'z got'z rib'z)

Post by **ttocs** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:02 pm

it sounds as though it has leveled off now huh? I am willing to bet that you had a stray piece or two of material from the cutting/clearancing that was needed to be done and that it has now blown or cleaned itself out.

In the future be sure to tape off all areas that pieces could even in the most remote possibility go. How much does a roll of tape cost? cheap insurance. Also be sure to use a vacuum rather then air next time. If the material is magnetic you can also use a magnet to pick up stray pieces although that would not have worked here.

Post by **kg1961** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:36 am

so a couple of days have passed any new word?

Post by **mhyde71** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:21 pm

here is some vid clips of the voltage meter in the car while full throttle on stereo.

two clips (cant recall which one - may confirm later) but on one of them you will see spikes of upwards 15.2 at around 44 seconds, and 58 seconds within the video stream...

And maybe i am just retentive, but should be all over the board like that??

Or maybe we have to consider the source, meaning: that there's a lot of power and awfully big spikes and do

BUT when the spikes get up over 15.5 (which I have seen like 16/16.2) the alt/charging light (and some other lights that like normally go on from just starting the car) in dash-board flickers on (like through the steering wheel viewing area)... (IOW meaning danger high voltage buddy)

dBincognito · Post by **dBincognito** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:33 pm

Do you get high readings when you don't run the stereo ?

Post by **mhyde71** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:35 pm

dBincognito wrote:Do you get high readings when you don't run the stereo ?

nope, not what-so-ever- stays right @ 14.2-14.4 constant

dBincognito · Post by **dBincognito** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:38 pm

mhyde71 wrote:
dBincognito wrote:Do you get high readings when you don't run the stereo ?
nope, not what-so-ever- stay right @ 14.2-14.4 constant

Well then, I think that your alt. is trying....or should I say succeeding in producing the current you are drawing......that might be why you are getting spikes.....musical peaks are demanding more of your alternator, and it's giving it, maybe a little too much ?

Have you tried it without your powercore yet ?

Post by **mhyde71** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:08 pm

^^^ i have not...
kinda waiting for the kenetic to come in (if that is a go or not i dunno) still awaiting reply from seller

knightrider358 · Post by **knightrider358** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:31 pm

het matt if it helps any, the yellow top Ive had since 2003 in my current install (only batt I might add also). I had in my old mitsu diamante with a cliff designs 10.1 (700w rmsx1 @ 4 ohms) I know its not PG but i got a great deal for them. they each were push 2 alpine type R 12's @ 2ohms. It had 3 40amp fuses so thats about 120amps current max draw and a 4 ch alpine 75wx4 rms @ 4ohms (older V12) with 2 30amp fuses. With a stock 90 amp alt. Now u know what Im running currently. Still same battery. Im not a seasoned vet or as knowagable as allot of u guys but MY yellow top has never left me stranded anywhere and sometimes Ive done jumps ofr other people and started my cars over and over and over within a 15min time fram. Now I know more about the mechanics of cars better than anything else and an egine start draws more amps and for more time than jus half sec music peaks ie 2-15sec starts thats why all car batts have different CCA and other amp specs because car starts will kill most batteries within a couple of long restarts of an engine. My point is matt get a yellow top as your primary battery I promise you wont go wrong why else has yellow tops been around longer than most other HO batteries. Oh yea Im jus giving my 2 cents on batterys for ya not ur alt good luck with that. PS let me know when ur done figuring out ur problem and we'll finish our other business with the PG alt we talked about. Prioroties first.

ALT FRIED (edit) replaced w/ new, still trble NOW VID's

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