PG news.............................

Post by **Rold Gold** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:32 pm

A ported box for a 15" clone would be like 8-12 cubes...

And it would play so low that we couldn't hear most of the notes........

But man would that move some air.....

Post by **ttocs** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:53 pm

xenon is xenon and while I like it better then some other lines I have never considered buying anything after the Ti line that PG made. AFter that point there was a CLEAR line drawn in the sand and you are either on one side or the other.

I would rather take the time to save the extra $100 that a 10yr old M line amp would cost over the new crap as I know after a cap replacement that it will last for another 10 yrs. I have thrown away enough money on car audio gear that I would consider disposable and that is exactly what they have been making.

I think that the way the last "limited edition" amp from china went over is a perfect example. Those words belong in the same sentence as much as teeth and penis.....

Post by **joerg** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:41 pm

I agree with ttocs in this case! The interest in phoenix gold from me and my friends got lost with the end of the TI-line! This line still had the set of balls i was used to think off when i heard the name "phoenix gold"

I think the problem after the TI-line was that PG just wanted to serve the masses! And that pretty much dumped it! PG isn´t or at least was´nt made for everybody!

If i kept going with PG after owning the MS ZX TI line i would have been not very satisfied with what i bought with a xenon, RSD or Ryval amp! I never understood why they had their name displayed on those amps. Look how beautifull an octane LE or an Reactor or a Frank is. Do you find something for less then a grand or even more on the market that looks the same way? I don´t think so!

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:00 pm

I don't want to start an argument based on emotion but what specifically about the "new" (Xenon, RSd) amps is inferior? Has anyone sat down and compared components, design, features and build quality and can report the specifics of why an RSd amp is inferior to a Ti?

Edit: I'm looking for honest discussion. I obviously don't have the facts myself.

Post by **Rold Gold** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:02 pm

I'm an M series guy myself so I can relate but I've installed a bunch of the zenon amps in friends cars and have been very happy with the performance.

On a side note........I haven't paid retail since I bought my M100/M44 set in the mid 90's. And I PAID retail too.

Post by **ttocs** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:53 pm

fuzzysnuggleduck wrote:I don't want to start an argument based on emotion but what specifically about the "new" (Xenon, RSd) amps is inferior? Has anyone sat down and compared components, design, features and build quality and can report the specifics of why an RSd amp is inferior to a Ti?

Edit: I'm looking for honest discussion. I obviously don't have the facts myself.

I have seen more then a few posts about the made in china amps not working. I have not paid any attention to them as I looked at it as a combination of you get what you pay for and you made your bed. Now when these amps do go(not if) are you going to spend the time to fix them? Nope, they are disposable and meant to be.

I have also seen more then a few posts about an old ZX, M, MS amp that looked like a tank drove over it but still powered up and worked fine.

I have also seen more then a few of these that did not work BUT these are worth the time to repair/repaint/re-powder coat, replace a few caps and have a killer amp.

Zapco has been successfull in making killer amps and still offering some custom lines like old PG did. As far as I am concerned they are a modern version of pg, but still not as cool.......

Post by **joerg** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:13 pm

That´s exactly the point! Like our new member in here nick777 that is looking for the part´s for his RSD600.1 By the time he has the parts with looking for the faulted areas and replacing them he has at least 100 bucks in it! And then he still does´t know if some other parts where taken with them and damaged even if it is not visible at the moment. And if he decides to sell it he won´t even get the money he´s thrown in for repairs back out again.

I would rather buy a new amp for the 180 bucks on the bay and that´s it.

Post by **Rold Gold** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:54 pm

IMO, thats chalked up to "serving the masses" as earlier stated and nothing more. The way I've heard it, the design was desent but the overall build quality wasn't up to par on the first batch. They definently wern't hand built like the original MS series amps and when you rely on a machine to do that kind of work there is bound to be some crappy units. I was told by more than 1 PG employee that the xenon was very similar to the MS amps.... Now I don't know anything about designing amps so I can't really back it up but I'd trust that info and the source. I think Phil even said that once or twice here.

I'd like to not dwell on the past but focus on the future here. There are a few old threads bashing the xenon line so it's played out and the same old shit is said.

Whats next...............................................

joyride · Post by **joyride** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:54 pm

I think that it is great news that they are starting to put things in the right order....

As far as the lines are concerned, I am also one of those guys that feel like PG lost it after the ti line. However, being a designer, I understand why. Most people dont realize it, ut design has pretty much everything to do with this situation. As Donald Norman said (in 'Emotional Design: why we love [or hate] things' ), we equate quality with the look. These amps were meant to appeal to a totally different market than the older amps. There was a clear definition that ZPA's were meant for the person that didnt care how much was spent on quality. Now you see the Xenon, which is meant to be mass marketed next to the typical Best buy product. Obviously we will connect the Xenon with a low quality, even if it is the exact internals of the higher class (ZPA) amp.

The problem is that even though I understand this, I will not adhere to it. It bothers me that I think my ti/zx is superior amp to an rsd, even though I know I could never tell the difference.

Post by **Rold Gold** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:32 pm

I can say that if I spend a good amount of my hard earned $$$ on ANYTHING the longevity and performance better be there. I too would probly overlook a high-end amp if it looked crappy on the outside. No matter how powerfull or good sounding it is.

Looks have just as much meaning as performance in my book. Looks like shit....... feels like shit...... must be shit.......right....... Looks good.... feels good..... must be good.......right......

Switching gears alittle.........I sent AAMP an email with an invitation to join our community. Hope somebody pops in and say hey.

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:20 am

I still can't find any announcement on AAMP's website about the acquisition. I figured once things were ironed out they would want to make some noise about it?

Post by **Rold Gold** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:50 am

I know huh................

Maybe they're just still in the process of figuring out whats gonna happen. If I was them I'd like to have a plan to roll out once I made the anouncment so maybe thats the case.

Post by **ttocs** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:41 pm

they serve the masses...... You can read the stuff on the site just like anyone else. I would not hold your breath on someone poppin in here that knows or cares about pg.

jbondox · Post by **jbondox** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:45 am

ttocs wrote:they serve the masses...... You can read the stuff on the site just like anyone else. I would not hold your breath on someone poppin in here that knows or cares about pg.

amen brotha!

jbondox · Post by **jbondox** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:50 am

you guys are setting yourself up for another disappointment

Aamp only cares about the dollar.. which is why they have so much off shore'd shit to begin with

they are just going to carry on the tradition of the last 6 years of PG by off shoring some more crap...

would i want a xenon or JL amp? made just about the same? both are off shored... JL hasn't been sold 10 times in a year so maybe I would go with them, they know how to market, back things up with their name... PG is a failure, and it is fuckin sad... I'll stop because here comes the emotion part...

but i would pay the money and so would my clients for a higher dollar amp... hell after all I am selling audison

Post by **ttocs** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:46 am

oh shit man when I saw you made a run through here I was afraid to see what you would type on this post. I know your blood was flowing PG bigger and better then anyone ever has at any time. I know how sad it makes me when I think about the little bit of the glory days I got to see, can't imagine being in the thick of it like you were only to see where it is today....

denim · Post by **denim** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:01 am

Interesting.

vin78 · Post by **vin78** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:12 am

I for one would love to see the "old" PG, but economically it is a recipe for failure. You can't compete against companies that can make an amp for a lot less by going overseas. Having the "made in the USA" stamp doesn't mean much these days anyways as a lot of "made in the US" amps are partially build in asia and fully assembled in the US to be granted the seal of US made (i.e. Tru technologies). As of now, there are maybe a small hand full of companies that truly made amps in the US, although I cant think of any at the moment. The problem is that the demand for US made amps is pretty small these days vs. cheaper asian made alternatives.

This is probably one reason why european amps has become so popular these days and some of the are labeled "SQ champs" among audiophiles. Some people feel that amps made in asia are inferior to US or European made amps, but chances are a lot all of the asian made amps are pretty darn good IMO.

I do agree that the rsd line as dropped off significantly, but from the xenon line, not Ti. I actually prefer the xenon line over some of the PG classics in terms of usability and power output. There are only 3 PG lines that I would take over the xenon series

Just my 2 cents

oldskoolmseriesfan · Post by **oldskoolmseriesfan** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:43 pm

which lines are they vin? m-ms-zpa?

Post by **ttocs** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:32 pm

I would have thought the failure rates of the made in china amps would have proven that they were not as good quality wise as the old american amps. I worked at a shop that sold pg for the last 6 good years and I can remember EXACTLY how many amps we had returned defective. They had been selling them for years before I got there but I never saw one come back for repair and we had an onsite tech............

my .02 and I'll raise ya a penny.

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:49 pm

http://phoenixphorum.com/post104408.html#104408

jbondox · Post by **jbondox** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:12 am

I am sure the Asians can build a decent amp, but what is the difference besides heat sink between a JL, PG, Kicker, RF, etc... just Asian amps with some BS marketing behind them.

PG needs to marketed to the sound quality people and adults, not kiddies needing a too fast too furious look or hype...

they offered a superior product back in the day and as simple as it was it never ever left me screwed as some of this Asian "me too junk" has.

ah... never mind... I am going to turn homicidal...

Post by **ttocs** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:38 am

fuzzysnuggleduck wrote:http://phoenixphorum.com/post104408.html#104408

Your posting a broken, and yet repairable amp from over 10 yrs ago as your example

? Do you want us to start linking all the broken china made amps that are on here

. I am willing to bet there are alot more of those and we all know they are not worth the time to fix

.... I will not buy any car audio that is disposable, even if it has a PG label on it. I would rather buy his broken Ti then anything from them in the last 10 yrs. That broken amp is worth more then some of their new stuff out of the box and that is no shit mang.

Maybe we could start a support group for grumpy old pg bastards like bondo and myself.

Post by **stipud** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:26 am

jbondox wrote:PG needs to marketed to the sound quality people and adults, not kiddies needing a too fast too furious look or hype...

That is my only gripe really. But that seems to be the nature of capitalism; successful companies must always grow. If a company stops growing, the shareholders get pissed off, and the cashflow stops.

So instead of staying a small, manageable audiophile niche brand, PG tried to expand their business by targeting the younger F&F crowd. But 16 year olds don't have as much cash as the older audiophile generation. The competition had already outsourced their amps, and in order to be competitive against them in the F&F market, PG had to move their production and change their style as well.

I really can't blame PG for the decisions they made. That's just the nature of the car audio industry now. The audiophile crowd is not what it once was... they got kids and minivans. I don't think it will rebound until we get our fat pension cheques.

I think we'll get more of the same from AAMP. They are very successful at targeting today's market, and there is little room for the old fashioned PG amps there. Still, we can always hope for the best. My stinger products have always been top notch. Maybe, just maybe, they want to take another stab at reaching the audiophile market again.

Anyways, instead of being grumpy and jaded, I'll just continue to celebrate the car audio brand for what it was, all the good folks who worked there, and all the friends I have made because of them. Long live PG!

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:09 am

ttocs wrote:
fuzzysnuggleduck wrote:http://phoenixphorum.com/post104408.html#104408
Your posting a broken, and yet repairable amp from over 10 yrs ago as your example ? Do you want us to start linking all the broken china made amps that are on here . I am willing to bet there are alot more of those and we all know they are not worth the time to fix .... I will not buy any car audio that is disposable, even if it has a PG label on it. I would rather buy his broken Ti then anything from them in the last 10 yrs. That broken amp is worth more then some of their new stuff out of the box and that is no shit mang.

Maybe we could start a support group for grumpy old pg bastards like bondo and myself.

I linked to a specific post with a PG employee confirming that failure rates have gone down, not up.