Product Suggestions

[denim]

I have a number of thoughts about this, but mostly glad to hear the good news.

As I see it, us PG fans want a return to the elite level, American made products that brought us to become a PG fan. But that won't happen again in this economy and insane mark ups that shops are expecting. And on the other end, the bean counters don't care about the quality of the product and would want everything built super cheap in Asia.

Now, if there could be a happy medium between keeping high quality products and from a high end American brand, with a few extra features or unique touches that set the products apart from RF or Kicker or Memphis etc., while keeping respectable pricing, but not bargain basement.

To me, the blow out of the product on ebay and PartsExpress is not good. And I fully understand that something like the very entry level Octane line, due to its lower MSRP probably outsells all other lines by a great deal, essentially funding the majority.

So if something like the current RSDC be the "entry level" (when it reality it is mid level or better) and have a slightly higher line to bring people over to look at PG. In other words, have the Ford GT on the showroom floor to bring people in to buy the Taurus SHO.

Oh and I would love it if SSA Inc. (my company) could be a PG dealer.

[jbondox]

yep....this is how I feel about it as well. I would like to see another 7.1 using digital d and t class. small footprint with an undeniable presence.

A real new world sub...not the one that is known for the best bang for the buck like the rsd....Morgan....we talked breifly about the baskets available now and pg has always outsource the speaker arena...so how bout ponying up something pg never did...an 18 for the bassheads that will not be appeased by the rsdc. Pg ought to contend with what is common on the market....big high power subs are desirable and they don't have to be the best on the block.....just get us on the map!!!!

an amp that produces more power....or at least make the classic pg 1200's strapable for 2500 plus loads.

I think that eventually a few good 7.1 processors would be a wondrous thing...who the hell runs 5.1 anymore...and why limit the client bases for it by only producing a 5.1....make a 7 channel and if they don't want the additional channels don't use em....fuck hdmi.....optical....something like zapco did with the symb link....tie it into the high end pg line directly or you can buy the proccessor and jump to short rca or optical....think digital tba receiver/transmitter and then you have a nitch in the market as even the big video guys arn't doing optical and it seems to me to be the best idea in mobile audio in years with all the typical noise issues....maybe there is a reason no one is doing it....could well be....

I hear all the elitist pg stuff but lets be real....how many here have bought the roadster....nice amp....limited edition and they are ebay landmarks now as very few are selling. So lets see....bride of frank....I would guess that with a new design and all the engineering for the boards and all you would be looking at higher cost then the os ms le amps....and who the fuck bought em? I mean new.....no one did cause they were 3000 bucks and that is the same reason no one will buy them now....

realistically....where does pg see itself in the market as far as competitors and tech advancement.....anyone who has read history should know that the lack of progression and or a regression into old technologies have never been granted a warm reception on the market and that is the shit that sends a manufacturer into the red for good!!!!

engineering is big fucking money....keep it simple for a while and start to produce a product that is better then what is on the mid to high end common market...if that is where pg wants to stand again...,.but it is a tight market too come into aggressively, that is a factor...but anyway.......and produce a better product and sell it for the same...so what pg does now is going to realistically reflect where pg sees itself in 5 years...or 10 years....

am not trying to tell pg what they should do...I am throwing out some realities on sales, marketing and engineering that I don't think people get...the days of anyone on the market making those kind of amps are gone....they made them for eye candy and to promote the lines they were based on.......I doubt anyone at pg wondered anything but how they were going to break even on the production costs on most of em....thus the limited thing.

18's don't sell, bassheads that compete want the gear for free, 7.1 what??? 5.1 doesn't sell like you would think it does in a vehicle, as I know since the Audison LRX5.1MT amp has probably only been installed in 5 vehicles in the past 2 years, limited edition amps should be no more than 200 in quantity and simplistic as the low number doesn't justify the cost... so tossing 2 readily available amps in one heatsink would be the way to go. And the limited edition old MS, M, etc amps still retain a good amount of their value... where no other manufacturer has that luxury.

also, on the 7.1 comment, alpine is no longer producing a 5.1 processor for a reason... niche market and doesn't sell a lot

[denim]

For sizes for drivers over the internet, 18's sell quite well.

[jbondox]

Uhm... I sell more 10's then 18's, hell in the history going back 14 years I have never sold an 18... nor ever would...

Woofer technology has gone fwd with the flat piston design, and small enclosure woofers, it needs to go further, but to install an 18" woofer in a 5^ft enclosure... that is a lot of real estate of a vehicle to take up... for what in an everyday driver vehicle? so lil kiddie flying around town thinking he is cool? or that it actually sounds good inside the vehicle? paleeze... amateurs!

wait maybe PG can start selling sealed back 5" speakers also and some whizzer horns to go with the 18's... because there is nothing reflecting quality products and installation like having 20 speakers on a door.



edit: I just called 5 shops that I know on the east coast, guess what... no 18's... don't even want them...

as for the internet kiddies that need 18's, there are a few brands out there, one day they will wake up and see the mistake they made or the money they pissed out the windows... but I do not fault them, it is a learning experience, and we all make mistakes

BTW, 95% of the kiddies that hear one of my systems, such as the Audi, want something like that vs what they have... which is all the BS internet shit and the hack shacks doing the installs and selling BS shit...

Sorry,, if this post gets sideways, but mobile electronics should be about promoting great sound, most cars come with sound or good sound, this should be like BASF... making it better...18's don't fit that category, and I will be more than happy to defend my thoughts if you want open another topic, just not on this one.

[dwnrodeo]

I agree with Jbondox in that 7.1 or 5.1 systems are not very practical nor do they sell. I think a majority of the people in here would agree given that most phorum members have a setup that has mids/highs up front, sub in back, and occasionally rear fill. I don't recall anyone having 5.1 on here...

[chevyx02]

I would have to agree with James on the 18's. I've never wanted to take up a lot of space in my vehicles like a wall of 15's or whatever. I've always wanted small encloser speakers that put of good sound quality like the Mmats Pro series 3.0's and the back in the day Lanzar Pro series comps. Just my 2 cents worth. Would like to see PG on top of the game again like everyone else, but do it the right way... Go back to Quailty. Maybe look at what Mmats is doing and do something similar.

[jbondox]

Oh yeah, it might not be a good idea, because i am pretty fed up with the industry overall... BS gear, BS websites, BS claims, BS shops, BS techs (loosely...very loosely speaking) BS marketing, and all it does is screw over the consumers, giving them a bad taste in their mouth... from hassles of f'd up gear to f'd up installations ruining their vehicle...

Their is nothing like taking off the shelf parts, tossing them together and selling it with some marketing BS

the only thing saving the mobile electronics industry is there are kiddies growing up wanting to be like their predecessors starting the big viscous circle all over.

look at the head units, 90% of the vehicles I work on have a better system than the aftermarket... granted 90% of them are made by the aftermarket manufacturers for the OEM's

maybe I should take the gloves off...

[jbondox]

another thing that is funny,, I have a guy who owns a recording studio that bought a Porsche from us so I can do a 5.1 system in it... he is working on 5.1 audio streaming over the radio with a few radio stations... last 5.1 amp I did was the BMW 6 years ago...

also TAD sent me a 5.1 PG amp for testing (chip amp) along the same time frame, and how did that work out for them? not!

[bruther]

James,
I would love to see a few of your vehicles......are you ever around on the weekends. I come to Northeast Ohio every month to see my daughter..... I would love to hear some of these vehicles. I'm having a hard time tuning my car. I need some inspiration.

[jbondox]

I try to get out of here on weekends but let me know when you are in, I currently have a huge project going on from out of state, unfortunately no audio, just computer integration stuff

this one leaves tomorrow at noon'

[bruther]

I try to get out of here on weekends but let me know when you are in, I currently have a huge project going on from out of state, unfortunately no audio, just computer integration stuff

this one leaves tomorrow at noon'

I'm always in Ohio the last weekend of every month. For Sept, I will be there next weekend. I would love to stop in when you are working on an audio project.

[longboard]

lol does anyone have anything recorded in 5.1 let alone 7.1 ??

[bretti_kivi]

hmm...

Two words: Bit One.

Another word: Audience?

Followed rapidly by "rep is all well and good, but results must be delivered".

Can you also, please, not forget that there are other countries on the planet other than the US. So that means Canada, Asia, Europe.

Understated looks, engineering overkill it's a pleasure to use. And real distro blocks, please - it's Audison or nothing right now as Streetwires is nowhere. Give the customers a deal - 6.5" comps, amp, connection cables, blocks, away you go. Doesn't need to be anything special, it needs to look smart and be functional. That is the premise, for me, of PG: Smart to great looks, functional, reliable, usable. Quality product at a good price.

Bret

[Mackenzie]

Uhm... I sell more 10's then 18's, hell in the history going back 14 years I have never sold an 18... nor ever would...

Woofer technology has gone fwd with the flat piston design, and small enclosure woofers, it needs to go further, but to install an 18" woofer in a 5^ft enclosure... that is a lot of real estate of a vehicle to take up... for what in an everyday driver vehicle? so lil kiddie flying around town thinking he is cool? or that it actually sounds good inside the vehicle? paleeze... amateurs!

wait maybe PG can start selling sealed back 5" speakers also and some whizzer horns to go with the 18's... because there is nothing reflecting quality products and installation like having 20 speakers on a door.



edit: I just called 5 shops that I know on the east coast, guess what... no 18's... don't even want them...

as for the internet kiddies that need 18's, there are a few brands out there, one day they will wake up and see the mistake they made or the money they pissed out the windows... but I do not fault them, it is a learning experience, and we all make mistakes

BTW, 95% of the kiddies that hear one of my systems, such as the Audi, want something like that vs what they have... which is all the BS internet shit and the hack shacks doing the installs and selling BS shit...

Sorry,, if this post gets sideways, but mobile electronics should be about promoting great sound, most cars come with sound or good sound, this should be like BASF... making it better...18's don't fit that category, and I will be more than happy to defend my thoughts if you want open another topic, just not on this one.

I can name several companies just off the top of my head that sell 18s, and have been for years, and are far better off than pg ever was financially.. They sell, and they sell quite well, its just they arent for everyone, and they take up space. Has anyone seen all the tahoes driving around? I see more of them than I do cars, so you cant sit here and tell me the vehicles are too small for them. If 18s didnt sell well, they would be obsolete... Even exile sells 18s now...

I think if pg makes a large sub, that they should build it in very limited quantities, and then go on from there. If they sell, build more, if not, phase it out.

ps jim, you know woofer size isnt a determining factor in sq, 18 or not. So you lost me with the "lil kiddie flying around town thinking he is cool? or that it actually sounds good inside the vehicle?" comment.

Thats all..

[smgreen20]

Damn JB!

I see your point on the 18's but when SPL is a bigger market then SQ is right now, why not? It seems as if 18"s can't be musical, but you should know better then most of us due to that speaker tech level we're at 18"s can sound just as good as a 10"/12". Yea the drawback is a huge ass box, but kids today don't care.

It would be nice to wake up tomorrow and every kid would come to their senses and realize there's more to music than just being heard. Like most of us I started out wanting to be heard, but from day one it's ALWAYS been about the quality of the products used, Clarion 6770 HU, Clarion APA4160 ProAudio amp/s, LANZAR Opti series amps, MB Quart speakers, LANZAR Pro series subs, still today it's top quality stuff and even though I don't have a job, it I have to have something replaced, I'll wait.

5.1 was great when it first came out in car audio, I had, still have actually, a Clarion DPH9300 capable of 4.1 with amazing results. I loved live recordings and that processor worked wonders. Today it has gone by the waste side of what the consumer wants. Alpines 5.1 and clarions center channel share similar fate for the same reasons.

But as I said above I see and feel your frustrations, but feel you're taking it to a more personal level.

[MW3]

Couple comments:

Its a safe bet you probably won't be seeing any 5.1 and 7.1 products for car from PG in the near future. That doesn't include 5 or 6 channel amps.

Big woofers. I like them and they do sell well in 12's and 15's. 18s are killer too but sometimes tough to justify if the tooling costs are high.

[jbondox]

Uhm... I sell more 10's then 18's, hell in the history going back 14 years I have never sold an 18... nor ever would...

Woofer technology has gone fwd with the flat piston design, and small enclosure woofers, it needs to go further, but to install an 18" woofer in a 5^ft enclosure... that is a lot of real estate of a vehicle to take up... for what in an everyday driver vehicle? so lil kiddie flying around town thinking he is cool? or that it actually sounds good inside the vehicle? paleeze... amateurs!

wait maybe PG can start selling sealed back 5" speakers also and some whizzer horns to go with the 18's... because there is nothing reflecting quality products and installation like having 20 speakers on a door.



edit: I just called 5 shops that I know on the east coast, guess what... no 18's... don't even want them...

as for the internet kiddies that need 18's, there are a few brands out there, one day they will wake up and see the mistake they made or the money they pissed out the windows... but I do not fault them, it is a learning experience, and we all make mistakes

BTW, 95% of the kiddies that hear one of my systems, such as the Audi, want something like that vs what they have... which is all the BS internet shit and the hack shacks doing the installs and selling BS shit...

Sorry,, if this post gets sideways, but mobile electronics should be about promoting great sound, most cars come with sound or good sound, this should be like BASF... making it better...18's don't fit that category, and I will be more than happy to defend my thoughts if you want open another topic, just not on this one.

I can name several companies just off the top of my head that sell 18s, and have been for years, and are far better off than pg ever was financially.. They sell, and they sell quite well, its just they arent for everyone, and they take up space. Has anyone seen all the tahoes driving around? I see more of them than I do cars, so you cant sit here and tell me the vehicles are too small for them. If 18s didnt sell well, they would be obsolete... Even exile sells 18s now...

I think if pg makes a large sub, that they should build it in very limited quantities, and then go on from there. If they sell, build more, if not, phase it out.

ps jim, you know woofer size isnt a determining factor in sq, 18 or not. So you lost me with the "lil kiddie flying around town thinking he is cool? or that it actually sounds good inside the vehicle?" comment.

Thats all..

Tahoe's, yes I have seen some, but always adults driving them. Am I missing something? Do you honestly believe that every Tahoe needs an 18 or going to have them? I have heard 2 with 10's in them and sounded quite well...

If 18's sold well, well Kicker wouldn't be still trying to sell the same speaker over and over ... they made a run of 18's, and they are slowly going away... did you see a really new model, like different basket or something? I might of missed that. NOT!

Are we seeing a new design in 18"woofers somewhere also that i missed? I don't think so, look at the exile and SSA Xcon series subwoofer... same off the shelf baskets.

So lets call china, say i need about 100 18" baskets, and what do you have in the motor bins, or the cone bins... or the terminal bins... you seeing what I am trying to explain

also building in limited quantities is more expensive then building in mass quantities, which is usually why you see at stores, buy 1-2 for regular price or $$$$off if you get 5 or more... same goes with regular businesses, including speaker building... then lets say you want to have your own style basket, something special, well you will have to commit to a large quantity in the manufacturing process... which is why you see the same basket on the Exile as the XCON

So do you think the Xcon and the Exile baskets are any different? or any better than the others... baskets only? nope!

That is just a small example I could go on and on, but I am not typing all that

no woofer size is not the determining factor, but being realistic, lets see, large enclosure tuned to the woofer without taking in the parameters of the vehicle and the response of it along with the top up, windows open, top down, sunroof open, etc... that is going to change everything in a large sized woofer, or even multiple woofers of a smaller size.

[jbondox]

Damn JB!

I see your point on the 18's but when SPL is a bigger market then SQ is right now, why not? It seems as if 18"s can't be musical, but you should know better then most of us due to that speaker tech level we're at 18"s can sound just as good as a 10"/12". Yea the drawback is a huge ass box, but kids today don't care.

It would be nice to wake up tomorrow and every kid would come to their senses and realize there's more to music than just being heard. Like most of us I started out wanting to be heard, but from day one it's ALWAYS been about the quality of the products used, Clarion 6770 HU, Clarion APA4160 ProAudio amp/s, LANZAR Opti series amps, MB Quart speakers, LANZAR Pro series subs, still today it's top quality stuff and even though I don't have a job, it I have to have something replaced, I'll wait.

5.1 was great when it first came out in car audio, I had, still have actually, a Clarion DPH9300 capable of 4.1 with amazing results. I loved live recordings and that processor worked wonders. Today it has gone by the waste side of what the consumer wants. Alpines 5.1 and clarions center channel share similar fate for the same reasons.

But as I said above I see and feel your frustrations, but feel you're taking it to a more personal level.

response to the 1st paragraph...no it is not a bigger market, we all just are BS'd by shops and manufacturers, when you replace a speaker in a vehicle or upgrade, you expect better sound quality, these $39 BS 6x9's or 6 1/2's are the jokes of the industry.

when a client comes to me for a speaker upgrade he is getting an upgrade, better speaker and the knowledge of not putting a speaker somewhere where it is going to counter productive to SQ... also technique comes in to play, from baffle to wire size to sound deadening...

as for 5.1, the cost was higher, people are cheaper! and from an industry stand point the techs, salesman, and shop owners are dumber! hands down the issue.

It is a PITA to set up a multi channel system that relies heavily on placement and proper calibration with delays, speaker size, frequencies of the said speakers to play the intended speakers... and not to mention my favorite... most these freaking techs out there have clue 0 as what 5.1 is and what it is able to achieve and how!

and here we go crapping on poor Morgans post.

I feel bad for the consumers out there because manufacturers are only going to build what sells, then they have to invest in making it installer proof, rely on shops to do it right... damn... with a proper certification program it would be better... and to market that program so the consumers know that there are shops out there that have a clue... though why some consumers show up to some ran down shop and expecting a perfect system/install is beyond me...

[jbondox]

Couple comments:

Its a safe bet you probably won't be seeing any 5.1 and 7.1 products for car from PG in the near future. That doesn't include 5 or 6 channel amps.

Big woofers. I like them and they do sell well in 12's and 15's. 18s are killer too but sometimes tough to justify if the tooling costs are high.

WAZZZZZZ UPPPPPP...

[Eric D]

18s can sound as good as a pair of 10s or 12s, you just need a very large amount of power. The 18 in the photo below replaced a pair of 12s. The install took up less space and had better bass with more low end and tighter midbass.

But, this is just one very rare example. 18s don't sell at all. Rockford made them, then canceled them, then brought them back, then gave up on them. I saw the marketing numbers when I worked there. And I was involved with the last great 18 they made, the Punch HX2. I even made the 18 in the photo below. It was one of 8 chrome sets of parts we got. 6 went to a basketball player and I built one for myself which I gave to my friend and we then put in the install you see. I don't have the exact numbers but it was something like well over 1,000 12s are sold for every 18. It was that crazy.

And to top it off, 18s don't survive sitting on a shelf in the store inventory. Their soft parts weigh so much they drop over time which results in coil misalignment.

[GX3]

how about a 32"er and be done with all this 18" crap and move on

18s just don't make sense other then to say look at mine its bigger then yours

moving on I hope ..........

[Mackenzie]

how about a 32"er and be done with all this 18" crap and move on

18s just don't make sense other then to say look at mine its bigger then yours, and much louder and lower.

fixed

[jbondox]

Anyways Morgan any news of yet? Is this going to be your forum and stupid is going to get some money finally for keeping it alive after all these years... oh oh oh ... can you see if the old forum is still on PG's forum... i would like the part to say i told ya all so to be in writing...

LMAO

[Mackenzie]

Uhm... I sell more 10's then 18's, hell in the history going back 14 years I have never sold an 18... nor ever would...

Woofer technology has gone fwd with the flat piston design, and small enclosure woofers, it needs to go further, but to install an 18" woofer in a 5^ft enclosure... that is a lot of real estate of a vehicle to take up... for what in an everyday driver vehicle? so lil kiddie flying around town thinking he is cool? or that it actually sounds good inside the vehicle? paleeze... amateurs!

wait maybe PG can start selling sealed back 5" speakers also and some whizzer horns to go with the 18's... because there is nothing reflecting quality products and installation like having 20 speakers on a door.



edit: I just called 5 shops that I know on the east coast, guess what... no 18's... don't even want them...

as for the internet kiddies that need 18's, there are a few brands out there, one day they will wake up and see the mistake they made or the money they pissed out the windows... but I do not fault them, it is a learning experience, and we all make mistakes

BTW, 95% of the kiddies that hear one of my systems, such as the Audi, want something like that vs what they have... which is all the BS internet shit and the hack shacks doing the installs and selling BS shit...

Sorry,, if this post gets sideways, but mobile electronics should be about promoting great sound, most cars come with sound or good sound, this should be like BASF... making it better...18's don't fit that category, and I will be more than happy to defend my thoughts if you want open another topic, just not on this one.

I can name several companies just off the top of my head that sell 18s, and have been for years, and are far better off than pg ever was financially.. They sell, and they sell quite well, its just they arent for everyone, and they take up space. Has anyone seen all the tahoes driving around? I see more of them than I do cars, so you cant sit here and tell me the vehicles are too small for them. If 18s didnt sell well, they would be obsolete... Even exile sells 18s now...

I think if pg makes a large sub, that they should build it in very limited quantities, and then go on from there. If they sell, build more, if not, phase it out.

ps jim, you know woofer size isnt a determining factor in sq, 18 or not. So you lost me with the "lil kiddie flying around town thinking he is cool? or that it actually sounds good inside the vehicle?" comment.

Thats all..

Tahoe's, yes I have seen some, but always adults driving them. Am I missing something? Do you honestly believe that every Tahoe needs an 18 or going to have them? I have heard 2 with 10's in them and sounded quite well...

If 18's sold well, well Kicker wouldn't be still trying to sell the same speaker over and over ... they made a run of 18's, and they are slowly going away... did you see a really new model, like different basket or something? I might of missed that. NOT!

Are we seeing a new design in 18"woofers somewhere also that i missed? I don't think so, look at the exile and SSA Xcon series subwoofer... same off the shelf baskets.

So lets call china, say i need about 100 18" baskets, and what do you have in the motor bins, or the cone bins... or the terminal bins... you seeing what I am trying to explain

also building in limited quantities is more expensive then building in mass quantities, which is usually why you see at stores, buy 1-2 for regular price or $$$$off if you get 5 or more... same goes with regular businesses, including speaker building... then lets say you want to have your own style basket, something special, well you will have to commit to a large quantity in the manufacturing process... which is why you see the same basket on the Exile as the XCON

So do you think the Xcon and the Exile baskets are any different? or any better than the others... baskets only? nope!

That is just a small example I could go on and on, but I am not typing all that

no woofer size is not the determining factor, but being realistic, lets see, large enclosure tuned to the woofer without taking in the parameters of the vehicle and the response of it along with the top up, windows open, top down, sunroof open, etc... that is going to change everything in a large sized woofer, or even multiple woofers of a smaller size.

To answer the question about the tahoe, no I dont think every one should have 18s in the back of them. However my point was that even kids have large vehicles, tahoes or not. I believe if marketed correctly, that they could build large subs. I dont expect everything to be custom, infact i wouldnt mind them using the typical spoke basket. To say 18s dont sell at all is a myth, because they would be dropped by all companies. Just to name a few Digital designs, audioque(dds sister company), fi( owner owned re), reaudio, incriminator audio, dc sound labs,rd audio, mach5 audio, thats just to name a few, I could go on for days.

Either way, i wont loose sleep if pg does not make any large subs. I would just like to see a highend line again of amps.

[smgreen20]

All things aside, The more I look at it and think back, 18's really don't sell all that well. And come on Jim, face it, SPL is a bigger market then SQ is right now. I wish it wasn't, but it is. SQ is starting to come back FINALLY, but it will take a few years still for it to catch back up to where it used to be.

Which leads back to what I was saying about the 18's, in terms of SPL, I see more 15's and 12's then I do 18's.

The local store we USED to have, Goodvibes, sold PG back in the day and to be an installer you had to take a semi annual test to stay certified. Those days are long gone in most places due to all of the installer friendly items on the market now.