PG ZPA & Ti Elites SOUND Quality???

Irongoats · Post by **Irongoats** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:49 pm

Holy hell that's a lot of stuff, pics of install when you start.

bhavp21 · Post by **bhavp21** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:14 am

to be honest this is my first install, ive never even had upgrade speakers, so what ever itl sound like itl sure be good for me...

Post by **Bfowler** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:16 am

so pretty much its like getting your drivers licence and getting into a Aston martin as your first car

bhavp21 · Post by **bhavp21** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:58 pm

Lol yeah you can say that, new engine, interior, wheels and now sound

bhavp21 · Post by **bhavp21** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:53 am

stipud wrote:Since the 5-1's have the passive crossover, it drains a bit of power from the speakers. Without the crossover, the 9M's do a lot more with the given power. With the .3 on your 9's and .5 on your components, the volume will be almost a perfect match between the two sets. With the .5's on your 9M's, they would be way too bloated, and you would have to hammer on the .3 to have your components keep up.

Not sure who can do the amp work for you in the UK. It can be done relatively easily by yourself... we have many how-to's that describe the process. However if you don't have soldering experience, I don't recommend starting with your ZPAs. Not only can you burn traces off the board, but it is easy to pull out VIAs, etc. and cause more harm than you solve.

do the 9s need a cross-over? or will they go straight on to the amp? i was told that they do and the Alpine PXI will be there cross-over for em?

longboard · Post by **longboard** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:20 am

the 9s can bge run active from the amp yes

Post by **stipud** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:03 am

bhavp21 wrote:do the 9s need a cross-over? or will they go straight on to the amp? i was told that they do and the Alpine PXI will be there cross-over for em?

Exactly, they need an active crossover to filter the sound BEFORE the amplifier, instead of a passive crossover that filters the sound after it. Your Alpine should handle that easily.

It should be installed bandpass ~50Hz-150Hz or so.

bhavp21 · Post by **bhavp21** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:19 am

stipud wrote:
bhavp21 wrote:do the 9s need a cross-over? or will they go straight on to the amp? i was told that they do and the Alpine PXI will be there cross-over for em?
Exactly, they need an active crossover to filter the sound BEFORE the amplifier, instead of a passive crossover that filters the sound after it. Your Alpine should handle that easily.

It should be installed bandpass ~50Hz-150Hz or so.

goin back to befor, 0.5 for the 51s because the crossover will take power out, and the 0.3 for the 9s, with the Alpine PXI acting as the crossover will that not take power out and under power the 9s being on the o.3???

Post by **stipud** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:24 am

bhavp21 wrote:
stipud wrote:
bhavp21 wrote:do the 9s need a cross-over? or will they go straight on to the amp? i was told that they do and the Alpine PXI will be there cross-over for em?
Exactly, they need an active crossover to filter the sound BEFORE the amplifier, instead of a passive crossover that filters the sound after it. Your Alpine should handle that easily.

It should be installed bandpass ~50Hz-150Hz or so.
goin back to befor, 0.5 for the 51s because the crossover will take power out, and the 0.3 for the 9s, with the Alpine PXI acting as the crossover will that not take power out and under power the 9s being on the o.3???

That's the thing... active crossovers filter the signal before it gets to the amp, so there is no power loss. Passive filtering AFTER the amp is what costs you power.

bhavp21 · Post by **bhavp21** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:28 am

so the 51s are gona be passive and the 9s are gonna b active...??

Post by **Bfowler** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:44 am

Correct^ although it wouldnt hurt to use the active hp crossover on the alpine for the 5-1's also

so how did you come into this gear for your first install?

Post by **stipud** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:07 am

Bfowler wrote:Correct^ although it wouldnt hurt to use the active hp crossover on the alpine for the 5-1's also

I disagree with this. The Elite passive crossover has a lot of extra filters in it that make the sound quality very hard to reproduce when running active. I have tried it, and even when they are both EQed flat it just doesnt sound half as good active if you ask me. The tweet and mid seem to phase and blend a lot better when using the passive.

Besides, the last thing he needs is ANOTHER ZPA

Post by **Bfowler** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:16 am

stipud wrote:
Bfowler wrote:Correct^ although it wouldnt hurt to use the active hp crossover on the alpine for the 5-1's also
I disagree with this. The Elite passive crossover has a lot of extra filters in it that make the sound quality very hard to reproduce when running active. I have tried it, and even when they are both EQed flat it just doesnt sound half as good active if you ask me. The tweet and mid seem to phase and blend a lot better when using the passive.

Besides, the last thing he needs is ANOTHER ZPA

um no, all i was saying is he should use the HP crossover in ADDITION to the passive crossover.

bhavp21 · Post by **bhavp21** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:45 am

"hp crossover"???

i have got a spare 0.5

ummm how did i get all this for my 1st install....

long story short....

i had a 0.5 to start with, sat round doing nothin, thought i need to make use of it, then got my speakers n sub, got a 0.5 for the sub, started working on my car and had probs after probs, got told ideally need another amp for the 9s, sourced another 0.5 from a show car but he wanted to sell both both together so ended up takin em both, i thought my car was ok but my engine was on its way out, that put everything on hold, got the new engine block which is now sorted, in meantime i wanted the Alpine DVA9965 component unit which no one had but luckily came accross the F1 gear, now its time for the install

Post by **stipud** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:17 pm

Bfowler wrote:
stipud wrote:
Bfowler wrote:Correct^ although it wouldnt hurt to use the active hp crossover on the alpine for the 5-1's also
I disagree with this. The Elite passive crossover has a lot of extra filters in it that make the sound quality very hard to reproduce when running active. I have tried it, and even when they are both EQed flat it just doesnt sound half as good active if you ask me. The tweet and mid seem to phase and blend a lot better when using the passive.

Besides, the last thing he needs is ANOTHER ZPA
um no, all i was saying is he should use the HP crossover in ADDITION to the passive crossover.

My bad. HP crossover is indeed a must. You would use your alpine to feed 150Hz and up to the Elites.

So the Alpine's active crossovers would work like this:

20Hz - 50Hz : subwoofer
50Hz - 150Hz : elite 9M
150Hz -20kHz : elite 5-1's

The 5-1's passive crossover will split the signal to 150Hz-3kHz for the mid and 3kHz-20kHz for the tweeter. In theory this can be done with active crossovers as well, but in my experience this hasn't sounded as nice, since a lot of engineering work went into the passive to make it sound better.

Post by **smgreen20** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:35 pm

I ran the 6-1 Elites off of a ZPA0.3 dialed in to 225 wrms X 2 @ 4 ohms and loved it.

I also wanted to store the 0.3 and used the ZX450v2 I had sitting around to go active on the 6-1 Elites. I found that I liked this too, but I didn't settle with the 24dB slopes that the Passive xover uses nor the points. I can't remember what xover points and slopes I used but for an easy quick install go with the passive.

Typically for every 6 dB, or order the slope is in a passive xover, it's a 5% loss in power.

A 100w amp=
6dB/ 95 w, 5 w wasted
12dB/ 90 w, 10 w wasted
18dB/ 85 w, 15 w wasted
24dB/ 80 w, 20 w wasted
And so on.

On another note, FWIW, I prefer the Dyns I had 2 years ago over anything I'v ever had.

bhavp21 · Post by **bhavp21** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:58 pm

quick question, do i need to upgrade or get another battery to power the 3 x ZPAs (only asking if i need to upgrade the battery as ive seen stinger batterys with high amps)? Also i bin told im gona need to upgrade my alternator, what amps do i need for that?

KUB3 · Post by **KUB3** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:25 pm

stipud wrote:
longboard wrote:the only problem i can see you having is the subs they are not a realy a sq based sub and dont really match up to the front end but all you can do is try it it may work
Really, the Elite not suitable for SQ? I've run it and several W7's, and the Elite is far more SQ oriented if you ask me. As far as big subs go, it's one of the better ones. They play much lower than typical street boomer subs... it will be a perfect fit with his 9-5-1 front stage if you ask me!

Even the original JL W6 isn't very accurate for SQ, when compared to the likes of CDT, Image Dynamics, DLS, etc, that are far more controlled without the blurred overhang. The W7 is far worse again. It's the last sub I'd choose for SQ, based on the ones I've heard so far. Jl subs can be great fun though, as they get low down and dirty

oldskoolmseriesfan · Post by **oldskoolmseriesfan** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:26 pm

I want to audition the Morel Ultimos

does anyone on this phorum even have one, or for that matter heard one? The price tag is 899.00 CAD at a semi local shop. I just havent had time to drive the 45 mins for the audition

Post by **smgreen20** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:55 pm

IIRC someone here had one. Can't remember who though.