Phoenix Gold verses other SQ amps

[The Golden One]

ive heard a few professional installers personal competition SQ systems that use other amps so here is the deal.first system zapco amps image dynamics competition horns/6.5 mid/12s for bass and eq.at first i was thinking this is going to be loud but when he turned it up all the way to undistorted power it wasnt loud at all.in fact a strong wind could have blown the sound away one channel of phoenix gold would blow his entire system away.next xtant amps diamond audio comps/kick panel 12s for bass this system was louder than the zapco but the sound was very weak compared to phoenix gold the highs did sound good but the midrange and midbass very very weak.next zx450 vrs zed made planet audio 4x75 tube amp i used a mid level clarion and jbl gto 6.5 coax speakers these two amps sound pretty much the same.the sad part about it is a top level zed made amp is just equal to a mid level phoenix amp. guys any similar experiences?

[todd217]

IMO there are only a few amp lines that are equals to phoenix gold. first is the old school soundstream reference amps and the orion hcca. the fact is PG did a hell of a job when the decided to start making amps.

[waynehead]

The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is that ID horns (even the low models) can make stupid amounts of output on 25 watts. Maybe with it being RTA'ed flat it just seemed alittle quiet. Phoenix gold has and still makes great amps, but there are alot of other amps out there that are well built. Its sad to say they are getting few and far between though.

[The Golden One]

ive not heard sound stream so cant comment on them but i will give an example of how orion stacks up well on spl anyway.this guy i used to know had 8 batterys and twelve 12's with two orion hcca 225's running everything he then placed a 0.3 in place of the two orions and said it was way better.he later got sponsored buy memphis audio.

[winno]

I was given a Tru amp once (a T2.65 I think it was) for a review.
I must admit that if I didn't already have my Ti's, I'd have a boot full of Tru now.

They exhibited similar traits - a fluid musicality which was involving and pleasing to listen to, along with plenty of power.

They were less expensive (the 600.2 and 500.4 retailed here in Oz for AU$2k each) and built better. At the time they were still considered boutique and Richard had that old school mentality that placed SQ on the same level as making enough money to enjoy a good lifestyle and stay in business (as opposed to most companies today that just want the buck).

[The Golden One]

i do know ID horns can be freakishly loud but if i paid $699 or more on them plus what ever the mids cost i would want more ouput.they did use an audio control rta analizer so im not shure why the output was so weak.

[The Golden One]

i can comment on tru tech and no its not bad this time my brother has a custom made 6 channel tru tech amp that cost him 3 grand.with all the things they did to it should have cost him 5 grand.the sound is the best non phoenix gold amp ive heard and the sound was not weak as with most high end amps are.im just not thinking the cost would be what i would be willing to spend on just one amp.

[ttocs]

horns are a completely different speaker because of their sensativity I thought. I was always told that they could only really be considered with a 1/3 octave eq to help to tune down how loud they can be but never built a system around them either. I have heard a pro system built around them and the imaging was just amazing and the soundstage never been bigger but you better know how to tune a system with out a meter to use them.

The other part about competition systems is that they are made to sound wonderfull at normal listening levels. There is no point in the competition where they turn it up to ear-bleeding levels ulness you are into spl.

I think mb quarts are a great example of this as they have a great sound at normal listening levels but sound hollow as hell at high volumes imo. Every time i built a system for a guy that required we use their speakers we could never tune it to sound good both high and low volumes.

[The Golden One]

ive found the same problem with mb quart but one thing that is fun to do is get some bats flying around with my quart 19's.

[tonym]

IMO there are only a few amp lines that are equals to phoenix gold. first is the old school soundstream reference amps and the orion hcca. the fact is PG did a hell of a job when the decided to start making amps.

Thats no BULLSHIT...

phoenix gold is what keeps me from trying new/other brand stuff...
If it aint broke...dont fix it...

and for the price you can pick them up for from here or ebay why try anything else?

I like mine minty so I would pay more...But some of the used stuff with scuff is a steal

[The Golden One]

price wise phoenix gold is unbeatable you could spend way more for another amp but to me most of them sound weak in the midrange and midbass.so why pay more for a weak sounding amp?

[shawn k]

There's just too many variables with the first post to make a fair comparison. I'm not knocking PG by any means here. PG has made some wonderfull amps and that's why my next system will be loaded with ZPA's but I got to say that there are plenty of fantastic amplifiers out there. Unless one was to do true "A/B" tests it's unfair to compare. All brand naming set aside, I've heard low-budget systems sound amazing. I've also heard "high-end" systems sound weak! All of this being said, I believe the choice of speakers (1st) and install execution (2nd) can effect the overall performance of a system far more than the difference between quality amplifiers.

[waynehead]

There's just too many variables with the first post to make a fair comparison. I'm not knocking PG by any means here. PG has made some wonderfull amps and that's why my next system will be loaded with ZPA's but I got to say that there are plenty of fantastic amplifiers out there. Unless one was to do true "A/B" tests it's unfair to compare. All brand naming set aside, I've heard low-budget systems sound amazing. I've also heard "high-end" systems sound weak! All of this being said, I believe the choice of speakers (1st) and install execution (2nd) can effect the overall performance of a system far more than the difference between quality amplifiers.

you got that right.

[fuzzysnuggleduck]

I believe the choice of speakers (1st) and install execution (2nd) can effect the overall performance of a system far more than the difference between quality amplifiers.

x2 on that one.

[The Golden One]

what variable makes an amp sound weak?also even amps with similar power supplys can sound different example 0.3 compared to 2125 the 0.3 does have better upper end detail but the 2125 has way more powerful midbass.

[smgreen20]

I wouldn't exactly call the ZX450 a MID LEVEL amp either. Back in the late '90s the 450 was the bomb. How many 4 ch. amps then (even today really) could do what the 450 does? I mean, really, think about it. 100+ watts X 4 @ 4 ohms, THD at .01% or less, and one of the most flexible xovers I've ever seen on an amp.

Amps today have a hard time keeping up w/it. To me, the 450 is a classic, end of story.


I actually had a thought of getting a 2nd 450 and 2 500's and redoing my system. I'm initially going to get a Ti2500.1/Ti600.4 when i get my G-ma's estate $$, but am half assed thinking about 2 ZX500v2's (1 on each sub) and 2 ZX450v2's (1 active on tweet and midrange, 1 on midbass and rear- for the kids). Just a thought.

[12voltjunky]

^that could make for a kick ass system

[kg1961]

i love pg but they are not the best sounding amp! the are not the highest in sq but very very good.
they used to do better than rated clean and work very good. i didn't like much of the lower end line but they were still better than most company midle of the road amps
i just hope they come out with a higher end line soon.....

[The Golden One]

so when phoenix gold was noted as the lowest distortion amps in the world and on top of the amp world they were not the best?

[JK]

nothings like the good old days.

[shawn k]

so when phoenix gold was noted as the lowest distortion amps in the world and on top of the amp world they were not the best?

Sorry but the short answer is no.

Just about, if not all, amplifiers out there produce rated output with distortion under 1%. We humans cannot detect distortion any lower than roughly 3%. Honestly, distortion within amplifiers hasn't been a significant issue for 30+ years. There are numerous other factors that determine a good/great/awsome amp.

[The Golden One]

here is a major factor you may not have thought about distortion kills speakers.that being said a lower distortion amp can be turned up louder so in turn the sound is clearer because say at 1% thd a very high distortion your speakers will blow as compared to .007 thd.i can get way more head room out of a .007 thd amp than a distortion filled amp any day of the week.

[shawn k]

here is a major factor you may not have thought about distortion kills speakers.that being said a lower distortion amp can be turned up louder so in turn the sound is clearer because say at 1% thd a very high distortion your speakers will blow as compared to .007 thd.i can get way more head room out of a .007 thd amp than a distortion filled amp any day of the week.

No sir. Heat destroys drivers, not distortion

A speaker does not perform any differently if distortion is present or not. A speaker simply tries to transduce AC voltage, into acoustical energy (soundwaves).

Distortion is simply an error or multitude of errors that prohibits the output signal from matching/mirroring the input signal.


You can/should only "turn up" an amplifier to the point that the signal clips. The distortion rating for the amplifier is not relevent here.

Distortion, especially with fet amplifiers and modern tube designs, has no effect on headroom.

I promise you distortion should be the least of your concerns when choosing an amplifer

[The Golden One]

there are just as many lies as there are truths that go against the golden rule of sq supremacy.i chose the truth as it has always worked 100 times better for me.those lies were created so amp companys can sell you an amp with bacon bit microchips.i chose not to believe there lies.

[shawn k]

there are just as many lies as there are truths that go against the golden rule of sq supremacy.i chose the truth as it has always worked 100 times better for me.those lies were created so amp companys can sell you an amp with bacon bit microchips.i chose not to believe there lies.

No offense but I have not idea what you are trying to say