Tweeter Question

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:12 pm

In my Colt one tweeter is a lot quieter than the other. The jumpers are both in on the crossover. I am using a 951 elite set. The 51s are powered by 2 channels of a Ti500.4 and they run off the to elite xover.

Here's the real question...If 1 tweet is fully enlcosed and the other tweet is open backed because of a problem the installers had because they were awful, Would the enclosed tweeter be louder?

The reason I ask is because I know they don't need to be enclosed but am just confirming that they would sound different if 1 were and the other were not.

Post by **stipud** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:12 pm

Switch the tweeters around on your crossover and see if the other side becomes louder.

Post by **VW337** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:17 pm

dead Ti...................

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:54 pm

VW337 wrote:dead Ti...................

Well the thing is if it is dead, then I paid for a new tweet a while back and didn't get a new tweet

. That would piss me off...this was a replacement for a dead tweet.

So you guys don't think there should be a difference if one is more sealed than the other? The sealed one wouldn't project more sound forward than the open-backed one?

Post by **VW337** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:50 pm

no not from what I am understanding about "sealed"(a photo may be nice), since the tweeters themselves are enclosed by design with no outside assistance.

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:44 am

So if that's the case, could it just be a bad tweet? Bummer...although I have always felt the right was louder than the left, I wonder if it could be a crossover issue...

I will get a picture by Monday to try to shed a little more light on the enclosed thing I am trying to describe.

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:05 pm

Ok, heres what it looks like. The circular piece u can see has to do with powering my previously manual windows. The suede u see is what the door is coated in. So this tweet's "pod" is totally open backed...the right side is totally sealed.

There is a very significant difference in tweeter volume when I fade from the left to the right and it is very disappointing now that I can't stop hearing the difference. I can barely hear the left tweet at all when I center the balance again. Also I feel that the left has always been quieter and am beginning to wonder if my Ti Elite crossover is damaged or just aging badly because since my last setup, I have replaced this tweet...

Post by **VW337** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:38 pm

did you swap tweet signals as previously mentioned by Tom?

Try it and let us know the result. If one tweet consistently plays lower, then it is likely dead or dying. Also check to see if your tweeter level jumpers in the crossover match, both in or both out.

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Tue May 01, 2007 7:28 pm

VW337 wrote:did you swap tweet signals as previously mentioned by Tom?

Try it and let us know the result. If one tweet consistently plays lower, then it is likely dead or dying. Also check to see if your tweeter level jumpers in the crossover match, both in or both out.

Yes I finally swapped signals. I feel as though it may have something to do with the elite crossover but I will explain some of my findings.

I swapped signals and it did seem like the right played lower now when it was initially the left playing lower but I am hoping my mind just isn't playing tricks on me. Both jumpers were in.

At one point, I faded all the way to the left(tweeter signals swapped back to normal), I took out the jumper and listened, then put the jumper back in, I felt that there was no volume difference with the jumper in or out and that it was still quieter. When I did this with the right, faded all the way to the right, took the jumper out, and placed it back in, I did hear a small difference...but this is all extremely difficult by ear as the side the jumper seemed to work properly on was still only a minor difference, not what I would expect 2db to sound like so that is why I am trying to do everything to make sure I am not just hearing stuff improperly.

I also checked some voltages. I went to the AC setting of my DMM(signals still back to normal) and took a reading first on the right. Moved around a little but stayed mostly around .8 to .9. On the left, my readings stayed closer to .7 to .8. I believe I had a similar discussion with some of you a long while back on soundbuggy and you thought this minor voltage difference shouldn't be an issue.

Are there any other voltage tests I can do to try to get to the bottom of this?? I can't stand having one tweeter sound lower than the other. It is driving me loco : ).

Could there be a bad component in the crossover? I had it checked a long time ago and they said it looked fine...

I would like to exhaust all possibilities so please suggest anything that might help me, I would hate to send the xover back to PG and then there be nothing wrong.

Voltage tests don't lie so if there is in fact better voltage tests or more reliable ones, please enlighten me.

Post by **VW337** » Tue May 01, 2007 10:04 pm

Umm, I am all kinds of confused, I understand what you are saying but I can't give you much direction here.

Try the voltage of the mids as well see if the findings are consistent, if so you may have a bad RCA, termination, or terminal block; however it could go deeper into a bad gain control in the amp or.................

Trouble shooting "steps" HERE work for signal issues as well as noise.

Post by **stipud** » Wed May 02, 2007 7:20 am

I am surprised you are getting any voltage at all. Are you using a 60Hz test tone on the tweeter side of the crossover?

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Wed May 02, 2007 10:40 am

stipud wrote:I am surprised you are getting any voltage at all. Are you using a 60Hz test tone on the tweeter side of the crossover?

No, just playing music. Wouldn't 60hz blow a tweeter?

Post by **stipud** » Wed May 02, 2007 11:13 am

Unless you have a "TRUE RMS" voltmeter, you're not going to be getting proper AC voltage readings on anything but 60Hz. Since 60Hz won't play out of the tweeter side of a crossover, there is no way to accurately test it with a standard multimeter.

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Wed May 02, 2007 11:20 am

stipud wrote:Unless you have a "TRUE RMS" voltmeter, you're not going to be getting proper AC voltage readings on anything but 60Hz. Since 60Hz won't play out of the tweeter side of a crossover, there is no way to accurately test it with a standard multimeter.

Ahh I see...understood. Damn this tweeter. If I had a better eq in my setup, I could probably cut the right side that was louder a few db.

I may take the jumper out of the right side and try to compensate a little that way but I don't like that idea...

Post by **stipud** » Wed May 02, 2007 11:29 am

I thought there was only one jumper...

Post by **Bfowler** » Wed May 02, 2007 11:37 am

stipud wrote:I thought there was only one jumper...

theres one for left and right.

Post by **stipud** » Wed May 02, 2007 11:46 am

You're right, I just checked in my car. Neat.

Since the description on the crossover is pretty vague, I assume it gets quieter with the jumpers OUT, right?

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Wed May 02, 2007 11:52 am

Yes, with the jumpers in, the mids and tweets get a 2db boost.

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Sat May 05, 2007 11:41 pm

Welt my left tweet is still a shitload quieter than the right, I have an old set of infinity reference 105t tweeters, I think I am gonna put one in the left side and see if my situation changes.

Whatever imaging I had is completely shot since the left side is so much lower, it's so annoying that it is a distraction...I can't even enjoy my music: (, but hopefully this infinity tweet will tell me whether or not my elite tweet is on it's way out.

If it is in fact the tweet, anyone know where I can get a fresh elite tweet...or will it be time to start looking for a new 5-1 comp set? Better yet, is there just a tweet that fits well into the Ti 9-5 elite scheme?

Post by **AVICJR** » Sun May 06, 2007 10:10 am

I know this may sound stupid, but did you check the balance on the HU? Sometimes we overlook the obvious and it sounds like the balance isn't "Zeroed" to me.

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Sun May 06, 2007 11:21 am

Any input is always appreciated

.

I appreciate it, but yes, in fact the balance is how I have been testing them, left to right to left to right again.

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Sun May 06, 2007 1:05 pm

So I threw the infinity on the left connections and got the exact result as the elite.

To test if it is my elite crossover, I assume it would be ok to dismantle my setup agin and throw on the left RSd comp xover that I am not using and see if I get the same result right? If I have the left channel on an RSd xover and the right channel on the elite xover, and I get a balance, something has to be wrong with the elite xover. Otherwise it would be amp or signal path.

Is the RSd xover a lot lower quality than the Elite or is is somewhat close? The Elite looks a heck of a lot beefier.

Post by **smgreen20** » Sun May 06, 2007 6:06 pm

Imaging of the tweets. One is possably pointed more at you, the right is what you say is louder, y/n? That used to be a problem when I first started installing. The right side sounded SO much louder than the left. That's what all the jumpers and such are for. Tayloring the sound to YOUR tastes. So, if one side s at 0 dB and the other -2dB, so be it. It's a mental thing to have to get over.

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Sun May 06, 2007 9:49 pm

Yes I did consider that a lot, and of course the right is in a much better position to sound perfect, but I literally pointed the left loose tweet at my ear today and it was so much quieter even with the right side jumper out...it's crazy. When the tweet is or is not pointed at my ear, I hear ALL my highs from the right. I fade all the way to the left and then ease back to the right, as soon as I get a quarter of the way back to 0, the right tweet is all I hear again...I wish it was a mental thing, then I could just forget about it.

Tomorrow I hope to try putting the RSd xover on the left channel, I will post when I get a result. I almost hope it is the xover because then I know what needs to be fixed.