Sub RMS question/NEW question page2 need you input

The Golden One · Post by **The Golden One** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:53 pm

their are certain tonal qualitys that are lost when you gear a sub for more power also you lose fine nuisances and the sub becomes less responsive and very slow. these subs are not musical at all and do not accurately reproduce the sound from the recording so they fail at musicality.

Post by **kg1961** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:09 am

The Golden One wrote:their are certain tonal qualitys that are lost when you gear a sub for more power also you lose fine nuisances and the sub becomes less responsive and very slow. these subs are not musical at all and do not accurately reproduce the sound from the recording so they fail at musicality.

Are you saying the Focal 40kx is not musical or a sub with more power than rated?
If your saying the focal is not musical than what the heck is?

The Golden One · Post by **The Golden One** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:21 am

kg1961 wrote:
The Golden One wrote:their are certain tonal qualitys that are lost when you gear a sub for more power also you lose fine nuisances and the sub becomes less responsive and very slow. these subs are not musical at all and do not accurately reproduce the sound from the recording so they fail at musicality.
Are you saying the Focal 40kx is not musical or a sub with more power than rated?
If your saying the focal is not musical than what the heck is?

no i should have been more specific i was referring to most of the subs that are leaning more toward spl. i was not talking about focal they do infact try to make their speakers sound as close to the original recording as possible. but for the most part you have to spend alot more money these days to get a sub that plays musical bass.

Stryker · Post by **Stryker** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:35 am

The Golden One wrote:
kg1961 wrote:
The Golden One wrote:their are certain tonal qualitys that are lost when you gear a sub for more power also you lose fine nuisances and the sub becomes less responsive and very slow. these subs are not musical at all and do not accurately reproduce the sound from the recording so they fail at musicality.
Are you saying the Focal 40kx is not musical or a sub with more power than rated?
If your saying the focal is not musical than what the heck is?
no i should have been more specific i was referring to most of the subs that are leaning more toward spl. i was not talking about focal they do infact try to make their speakers sound as close to the original recording as possible. but for the most part you have to spend alot more money these days to get a sub that plays musical bass.

Alot of the subs in this article put out a serious amount of SPL and still retain very good SQ. From my own listening experience and alot of online reading DD has great SQ and also gets dam friggin loud. Now of course everyone has there own thoughts but these are professional reviewers and they picked DD in this SQ group. A common misconception about a supposed to be SPL only sub that has SQ as well. So there is one example of a sub thats a SPL monster that also sounds good, and there are plenty more too. Alot of todays big power rated subs are still musical and have SQ.
http://caraudiomag.com/articles/best-al ... ers-part-1

The Golden One · Post by **The Golden One** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:17 am

in reality most all those subs require a lot of power to get them going once you put the power to them your amp starts to distort therefore the power robbing nature of them becomes more evident. so while you put more power to them you are also putting out more distortion but if you like distortion go for it it's easy to get but hard to get rid of.

Stryker · Post by **Stryker** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:59 am

The Golden One wrote:in reality most all those subs require a lot of power to get them going once you put the power to them your amp starts to distort therefore the power robbing nature of them becomes more evident. so while you put more power to them you are also putting out more distortion but if you like distortion go for it it's easy to get but hard to get rid of.

so your saying big power equals distortion???? how so? my system is large in power and doesn't sound the least bit distorted. Mind you i know how to tune a system.

The Golden One · Post by **The Golden One** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:08 pm

no in a nutshell im saying subs that need a lot of power to push them have distortion where there should be music playing and you also cant hear the actual music because of the muffed sound that some people call bass.

Post by **ttocs** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:40 pm

k then........

Post by **stipud** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:05 pm

Not sure I agree with you there. Long stroke woofers can and do still have fidelity. Pure SPL woofers are indeed biased with high Qts (fast low end roll-off and a very peaky response), but this is not true for all long stroke woofers. In fact a lot of short stroke oldschool woofers lack fidelity when the bass gets very low, and sound boomy or distorted. If you run adequate midbass up front, and cross your subs over at low frequencies, I tend to prefer a good long stroke subwoofer.

Prime example of a high fidelity, high power, high excursion woofer is the Ti Elite 12D. That thing was engineered for sound quality, despite being a behemoth. I have heard few subs that sound cleaner in the 20-50Hz range than one of those, when adequately powered.

On the other hand our definition of "sound quality" differs from guys like Stryker, etc. To me proper "sound quality" means you are reproducing the original signal as faithfully as possible, with a flat-ish frequency response and little bias towards any specific frequencies. While to other people "sound quality" means just having clean, clear sound, regardless of how it is weighted at certain frequencies (especially with a huge boost in bass). This is simply a matter of personal taste as far as i'm concerned (at least, out of a competitive environment). Just because the bassline is heavier doesn't mean it is "distorted" per-se... it just isn't an exact reproduction of the material you are playing.

Stryker · Post by **Stryker** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:23 pm

^^^^ this is what I've been trying to say"clean clear sound"
Although I do like heavy bass

I can turn it down and leave the bass cube at minimum or just off and the lpl at minimum and it blends very well with my front stage or can. Every person is different, but it's foolish to classify loud subs that hit high numbers on an SPL meter as lacking completely in SQ cause it's not true.

The Golden One · Post by **The Golden One** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:56 pm

never mind me im just a perfectionest i like for my bass to blend with perfect precision all the way up and down the frequency scale and not over shadow my front stage or have my front stage over shadow my subs. i listen to my music with my head unit completely flat 90% of the time and it sounds great no bass boost no treble added no other distortion adding adjustment's alot of people are afraid to do this because their systems are not up to par.

Stryker · Post by **Stryker** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:49 pm

pffffft... whatever

Post by **kg1961** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:52 am

know guys i think we are way past the rms question

my new question is this I own 2 soundstream spl 10" sub they sound great on most tracks. they hit me in the lower back and sound great with the mb quart fronts.
If it was you and your older winter car with 5-600 watt rms 4ohm bridged or 250 2ohm stereo
would you run the focal 16" (i am still afraid a bit as joerg knows his shit) but im sure it would sound great..
or would you put 2 nib 10" RSDC dvc dual4
I have the output i like right now just the subs bottom out once in a while from over powering them and and the limits of being older subs with little xmax

I will be firing them into the car in a sealed box sealed to the back of the car so all the sound goes into the cab. my dvd deck has a q setting on it so i can change it if needed.

let me know what you think again Im happy with the older 10 just want a little cleaner and a little more xmax out of them

nothing else will change in this set up this year....

Post by **stipud** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:38 am

You already have the focal... try it! If you don't like it THEN you can start worrying about what to replace it with.

Post by **kg1961** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:07 am

yes but with my lack ot time now(baby) i can get some money back and use the box i have all about time and money

Post by **stipud** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:15 am

Geez get a prefab then ya whiner

Post by **kg1961** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:28 am

I know I know so will the RSDC sound good with the power? remeber we are comparing the soundstream to rsdc?
Tom your the man with RSDC tell me
Mike

Post by **stipud** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:04 am

What are you looking for? They will play lower. The RSDC10's are smooth and blend amazingly well with a wide variety of setups.

The Golden One · Post by **The Golden One** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:19 am

this bit of info may interest you a bit ive pushed my critcal mass ls15's on a 0.3 and a lanzar opti 500rms x 2 and these subs can take 1100 watts rms and ive pushed them pretty good. but i put my 0.3 on my fronts and just wanted a little bass so i put my little sapphire 3.0 amp on one of the subs. honestly i didnt expect much out of the 3.0 it's 75 x 2 and 500 watts peak dynamic but that little sapphire amp kept up with my front stage surprisingly well in fact the bass was hitting me in the back of the neck and i said damn this little phoenix amp is no sissy amp. dont focus to much on the wattage down to the last watt and just see what that focal sound's like with the amp you got it may just surprise you.