0.5 smokes a kicker 12L7

[The Golden One]

i give up.

i can't help it man it must be from that time when i was a kid and i got a gold sliver in my finger when hooking up a phoenix gold amp. ive got gold fever and it just gets stronger and stronger i dont even think dr.phil can help me.

[Jacampb2]

i give up.

Haha, I didn't even comment yet, and I am with you!

Again, any amp can clip. Some designs are more graceful and can clip with lower distortion, but they still clip, even if it is a "soft" clip.

FWIW, you seem a bit confused over how THD+N relates too. All clipping is distortion, but not all distortion is clipping. THD+N is not typically measured with the amplifier being driven into hard clipping.

Hypothetically: An amplifier's power supply is capable of delivering 50V to the output transistors regardless of loading (in truth this doesn't happen, the rails always sag under increasing load) 50V is the best said amplifier can produce, even if the immaculate hand of God reaches down and touches the amplifier. Are you with me so far? Ok, now, owner of said amplifier overdrives the input so hard that the amplifier tries to deliver 63V at the speaker terminals. Our power supply can only do 50V, so what happens to the other 13 volts? Well, they don't exist, because the amplifier cannot produce them, but a weird thing happens, the output transistors try to faithfully reproduce what they are being asked, so they basically go "wide open" when they reach 50V but can't deliver any higher because it just isn't there. Since the input signal will be "requesting" that they deliver 63v for a certain amount of time, the output transistor will stay "wide open" until the input signal falls back into the range that it can reproduce. The whole time that the output signal was "wide open" there was 50V DC delivered to your voice coil. That, my friend, is clipping.

That said, I didn't watch the video. The ZPA's are balls out awesome amps, but as stated, they aren't magical.

Later,
Jason

[Eric D]

I own a ZPA0.5 If you feed it a clean signal and turn the gain up to far it will clip. It does this into a 1000W rated speaker, or a 50W rated speaker. The speaker connected to the amp does not directly determine if it clips or not, the gain setting and input voltage do. The speaker can indirectly make an amp clip if its impedance is low enough to draw the rail voltage down and cause the amp to clip prematurely.

Although I like the ZPA series, they are not all that special. They have a lot of output transistors, but for their ratings they have a weak power supply.

All an amp does is take a low voltage low current input signal and boost it too a higher voltage, higher current signal. The ZPA is no different. I don't care how great it sounds, or how great its reputation is, or how special it seems to be, the bottom line is it does what every other amp out there does, and therefore has the same shortcomings as many of the amps out there.

[The Golden One]

yea you guys maybe right about all amps have there limitation's and all amp's clip and all that but the ZPA's are the best amps made of the era for which they where made period. and if you feed them enough power and enough subs you can totally dominate most any low ohm high current amp of that era. how do you think this guy i used to know just changed out two orion hcca 225's that where pushing 12 12's for just one 0.3 and he said it hit harder and sounded clearer. i was at his house when he was building the battery bank with 8 battery's and let me guess when memphis audio sponsored him it was just out of pure luck sure that was the reason.

[kg1961]

yea you guys maybe right about all amps have there limitation's and all amp's clip and all that but the ZPA's are the best amps made of the era for which they where made period. and if you feed them enough power and enough subs you can totally dominate most any low ohm high current amp of that era. how do you think this guy i used to know just changed out two orion hcca 225's that where pushing 12 12's for just one 0.3 and he said it hit harder and sounded clearer. i was at his house when he was building the battery bank with 8 battery's and let me guess when memphis audio sponsored him it was just out of pure luck sure that was the reason.

yes the zpa amp are good but most subs can handle more clean power than rated kicker can handle 600-1000 of clean non clipping non bass boost(distortion) used .
I think that you are defending the zpa and the other saying the amp can make dirty power. it can make dirty power all amp can.
yes the amp killed the sub
there are alot of things that can cause this, dvc only hooking up one vc, adding bass boost wrong box size, was the sub new i don't think so so how was it treated also the age of a sub ect ect ect.

we all know and love the zpa amp but out of the pg line they were a made for sale protoype and never really finished. also using a 25x 2 amp vs the .03 is not even the same playing feild. I had the orion hcca amp they are great but have to load them down so much to get 300-400 watt they are not worth it. hard on the car electrical/less control at lower ohms and the amp get so hot you can cook eggs on them. now if the other person had a hcca 275 Im sure they would be in the same boat for sound power ect. Orion and PG IMO are in the same time frame and build quality and very simular sounding. The hcca line is just the aka loading the amp down line with smaller rated rms watts the xtr are the same just can't be loaded down as much and make better more power at 4ohms.
think of it this way the zpa .03 needs 60amp of current one amp to make the power you need to make the subs dance. you need 2 amp and need to load them lower (who know if they were set the same) as every amp make differnt power this is why company make birth sheets need 40amps x2 than you are using more power only because you are loading them down. so if your taking a or two small amps and running the shit out of it. or have a bigger amp that you don't need to beat up as much and the big one is fan cooled than i would say the bigger amp would be better in that set up. Im not saying have a big clarion, kenwood ect vs but keep it in the same ball park and you will see how the zpa amp are not that much differnt than any other higher end a/b amp out there around that time or today. Today amp all just look the same and most are made over seas

[BillM]

It should have sounded louder as he gained 200 watts from using the PG over the Orions. The Orions will do 1 x 400 @ 1 Ohm they cant run .5 ohm bridged mono. So if he used 2 that is 800 watts to subs not 1,00 so he definitely should have heard a difference. Now I would love to test and compare one to my MMATS D300-HC of the same build time advertised at 1,200 RMS @ 2 ohms.

[Eric D]

yea you guys maybe right about all amps have there limitation's and all amp's clip and all that but the ZPA's are the best amps made of the era for which they where made period. and if you feed them enough power and enough subs you can totally dominate most any low ohm high current amp of that era. how do you think this guy i used to know just changed out two orion hcca 225's that where pushing 12 12's for just one 0.3 and he said it hit harder and sounded clearer. i was at his house when he was building the battery bank with 8 battery's and let me guess when memphis audio sponsored him it was just out of pure luck sure that was the reason.

So from one specific example you have determined the ZPA's are the best amps made for their use? Call me crazy, but this does not seem very scientific...

Besides, ever hear of the RF Punch 50.1?

Furthermore, the ZPA0.3 specifically is really no better than a ZX500, power wise. They both share similar power supply limitations, and the power supply will determine the ultimate power the amp can do. With the ZPA you gain low impedance capability, and additional sound quality, although personally I cannot hear any difference between the two, they both sound great to me.

[The Golden One]

you guys are making some very strong points and i for the most part agree but one thing i do believe that hold's true is phoenix gold does sound clearer than most amp's a low ohm load's. now mind you ive only compared my 0.3 against my lanzar optidrive that is rated at 500x2 watts rms at 4 ohm's and 750x2 watts rms at 2 ohm's i only did a stereo comparison because your not suppost to ohm down that big opti while bridged.i used my critical mass ls 15's as they are 2ohm single voice coil mind you the power supply of the opti is bigger than the 0.5 but the 0.3 sounded clearer than the opti on all the bass however the opti did hit alot harder on the spl side of things but who know's what the 0.5 would do next to it.

[shawn k]

i give up.

LOL!

[BillM]

We are talking subwoofer amps correct? So basically 80Hz and lower frequencies. I keep hearing "sounds better than this" OK if one amp is more powerful yes to your ear it will sound better it is creating more SPL than the other amp giving you the impression its louder and sounds better in my opinion. You would have to have a highly trained ear to say the Third Bass note in Bass I Love you sounds better and is crisper at the same power output with Amp A over Amp B regardless if it is Class A/B or D. I switched from a Class A/B amp on my subs to a Class D and heard no SQ difference. If you can hear audible differences at 20Hz You Da Man I sure cant. Now if you said I heard the difference when I took the same sub and used different enclosures, one ported and one sealed I could agree.

[shawn k]

That sub blew simply for the fact that it was being fed high voltage at frequency's below the tunning of the enclosure. Really nothing to do with the build quality of the sub, nor anything to do with the amp!

This is clearly a case of ESO.. period!



ESO= Equipment.. Superior.. to the Operator!

[smgreen20]

Speaking as a former owner of a 0.5, listen to what everyone is telling you. It's just like any other amp, its subject to.clipping like all Tue rest. The L7 is only rated for 750 w, I used to have one of those too, and at 2 ohms on the ZPA it will still only put out about 1100 w. Eric, my 0.5 is now in your hands, any testing done to it? If you do the mod to the 0.5 you could expect to see 1500-1600w at w ohms from it. There, now a true ZPA owner/user has spoken. You can't use that excuse now.

[The Golden One]

i myself have three 0.3's and one 0.5 and i have done a bit of cruising with these amps in my car sure they clip as other amps do but they to me sound pretty good before they do, infact i believe they sound better than most amps in their watt range and even some more powerful amps especially on bass.

[kg1961]

i sure they do sound great but if your getting that kinda power from a class d or what ever mono amp class is now also if your using lower end brands just to get the same power the pg will be better

[smgreen20]

I have to know, what Lanzar amp are you referring to? if you're comparing the Opti500 to the 0.5, same era amp, I need to inform you about the misconceptions of the mid 90's Lanzar amps.

I keep forgetting that one thing to look at, tuning frequency of the enclosure. Iirc the tuning frequency of the factory box is around 45Hz. Good catch.

[The Golden One]

its an opti500x2 its rated at 500 watts rms x2 at 4 ohm 750x2 watts rms at 2 ohms and 1000x2 peak and 2000x1 bridged its not a bad sounding amp for a beast. though phoenix gold sounds better it does a bit more on the spl because that's what it was made for. but the 0.3 does vibrate my front windshield and you can hear it rattlling in the seal, the lanzar just pushes in on you a little more but it takes a while for it to kick in. i would have tryed the 0.5 but its in need of some things to make right.

[smgreen20]

I'm sorry to inform you, but that Opti500 isn't as powerful as you think. That amp is one of the biggest reasons I got into car audio, Lanzar and a friend are the sole reasons I got into it. The Opti500 is rated at 250 x 2 @ 4 ohms, 500 x 2 @ 2 ohms, 1000 x 1 @ 4 ohms. They are so tightly regulated that the Opti500 only does about 1025w x 1 @ 4 ohms. The Opti500 TMS is the only exception, it'll do 1600w x 1 @ 2 ohms and is the only one rated to do 2 ohms at 1 ch. 3 companies peaked my intrest back in '93, Clarion, PG and LANZAR. I have followed all 3 to this day, but will admit, slacked off on the LANZAR brand when they sold the company 10 yrs back. I can also back up my posting about the amps as I have several reviews in mags that show their power output.

You might love PG over all others, that's fine, a lot of us here do, but it's as if you're pushing your "belief" on us. You have some mis-informed beliefs, but are stubborn to accept the facts.

[The Golden One]

im thinking you havent seen the opti i have because its no sissy amp your talking about the opti500.2 this amp http://ampguts.com/gallery/?cat=1069 but this is the amp i have the opti500x2 this is a serious amp and can bottom out some competition opti 12's http://amp-performance.de/512-Lanzar-Op ... 500x2.html

[smgreen20]

After looking, yes, different amp I was in reference to.

[The Golden One]

its no big deal it's easy to confuse opti500.2 with opti500x2 there's not much difference in the name but there is a big difference in power i would put it on my lanzar pro's but im affraid it might melt the voice coils but who knows maybe not.

[Eric D]

Speaking as a former owner of a 0.5, listen to what everyone is telling you. It's just like any other amp, its subject to.clipping like all Tue rest. The L7 is only rated for 750 w, I used to have one of those too, and at 2 ohms on the ZPA it will still only put out about 1100 w. Eric, my 0.5 is now in your hands, any testing done to it? If you do the mod to the 0.5 you could expect to see 1500-1600w at w ohms from it. There, now a true ZPA owner/user has spoken. You can't use that excuse now.

I won't power the amp on until I replace the input caps. As it sits the amp is a fire hazard, and I won't risk killing it.

But, I have worked on ZPA0.5s in the past and I know enough about them to know they are just like any other amp out there in the way they work, and there is nothing magic about them. They clip like the rest, they distort like the rest, and they are as inefficient as any other Class A/B amp is.

For their purpose they work great, but are by no means the end all of amplifiers as The Golden One would like us to believe...