ti12d elite on ZPA's or xenons?

forrest · Post by **forrest** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:44 pm

I am redoing the stereo in my E36 BMW to reduce weight. The last setup was 3 Ground Zero Nuclear 12's , 3 ZPA 0.5's, sofas, ID horns and IDQ 8's, and 3 kinetik hc1800's.
I now have an xs power D3100 to run the car and stereo, and a 240 amp alternator. I plan on ordering a dynaudio 362 setup for the front stage and use either 1 or 2 ti elite subs. I can't decide if I want 1 or 2 subs and what I want everything powered by. I have 5 working 0.5's and a 0.3, I've got 2 1200.1 , 2 200.2 , 2 100.2 , 100.4 ect. I know for most 1 sub would be enough , but given the output my last setup was capable of I'm not sure I'd be happy with 1 sub.
Should i use a 1200.1 to each sub and a 200.2 to the dyns, or a modded 0.5 to each sub and a 0.5 to the dyns or 1 sub with a pair of xenons or a pair of 0.5's and the matching front stage amp. I like the all 0.5 idea but wonder if my 1 big battery and alt is enough. What are your thoughts?

Post by **kg1961** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:38 am

have the caps been change on the zpa if not they are a fire waiting to happen they are nice but no xover unless you have the card ect. they are old and most are starting to fail.
i would use the xenons as they are very clean power more xover better setting also first time pg used click to tell you what xover point you at ect. remember the pg12el is more than just a normal sub its sick... i had a couple bmw e30.e36, and 2 e90 that would be more than you need if the box is built right and if you port it hold on. does your e36 have the ski hole? make the box poirted to that
the x200.2 is a great amp ton of power for speaker duty
this would lighten the load im should with the be alt. battery in the trunk as all bmw have it would be fine
i had a reactor #3 and frank#36 in mine and it didn't need a battery upgrade or alt upgrade

sound cool show pics of your old set up. is your car a 318 ,318ti,329,328 or a m?

pimpinest123 · Post by **pimpinest123** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:49 am

If u want to sell the zpa0.5s let me know

forrest · Post by **forrest** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:20 am

I am aware of the cap issue, I lost 1 that way but have 5 left that have had the caps changed and will be changing the caps in my new 0.3 soon. I don't really need the xover points on the xenons as I also have an alpine pxa-h700. My old GZ nukes are not exactly your garden variety sub either.
Car started as a 93 325is, fold down seats so no ski hole. There is nothing 325 left about it. Built forged internal S52 with a GT35R turbo and meth injection capable of about 600whp.
They dynaudio dealer is telling me he would run the 362's off of a ZPA over the xenon. I also talked with XS Power and was told 36-3700 watts of class a/b power on my setup would be right at the limits but "should" be ok for a daily type system.
After hearing people with 1200.1 on the elite's saying it was not enough power maybe modded 0.5's would be enough? I also consider 2 amps on 1 sub but how long would the sub last with that much power going to it?

shawn k · Post by **shawn k** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:22 am

Are you going to sell the GZ's? Sorry... I had to ask. I have one myself and absolutely love it! These were some of the very first true heavy weight subs available and way ahead of their time.

forrest · Post by **forrest** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:44 am

I might. I was planning to put 2 of them in my truck. I'm not going to try to sell them but if I got an offer I could live with I'd let them go

Post by **Bfowler** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:09 am

i dont think a single x1200.1 is quite enough to give the ti elite justice. i would go zpa personally. a pair of x600.1's(they usually put out~850@4ohms) (or even another 1200.1) would be another good pick

so...what do i have to do to get a ride in that thing? where in Portland are you? i might have seen you at some bimmerfourms meets

Post by **kg1961** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:18 am

x1200.1 with birth sheet will hit the 1300-1400 range more than you need you will get less out of a zpa? if you use 2 you can run into alot of problems setting
also the zpa was a non finished production model they look cool but not for me
i would take a ms or even a rsd any day less bs modding ect. you mid will not need more than 480 rms
my x200.2 does 486rms all day for sub duty
both the zpa and x love and need 8volts so what do you have to increase the signal ?
not say your old subs were not good just have you ever heard a 12el powered right tuned and ported sound like 2-3 above average sub to me
and such and small car after the trunk is filled
i just would not do the amp or amps that needs more power amps current, make more heat and get you less power other than old school why bother?
enjoy the cool set up either way will look great if done right

forrest · Post by **forrest** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:37 am

kg1961 wrote:x1200.1 with birth sheet will hit the 1300-1400 range more than you need you will get less out of a zpa? if you use 2 you can run into alot of problems setting
also the zpa was a non finished production model they look cool but not for me
i would take a ms or even a rsd any day less bs modding ect. you mid will not need more than 480 rms
my x200.2 does 486rms all day for sub duty
both the zpa and x love and need 8volts so what do you have to increase the signal ?
not say your old subs were not good just have you ever heard a 12el powered right tuned and ported sound like 2-3 above average sub to me
and such and small car after the trunk is filled
i just would not do the amp or amps that needs more power amps current, make more heat and get you less power other than old school why bother?
enjoy the cool set up either way will look great if done right

Cutting the diodes on the zpa's is supposed to get you to about 1600rms so a good 2-300 more than the xenon. I always hear people say it needs 1500+ witch the xenons fall a bit shy of doing. I have several line drivers from the tbat, pld, tld66, tld22, and a matrix, so no issue with them getting 8 volts. I bought 1 of my elites from dvnt88 and listened to it in his car with a ti1200.1 before I bought it. It sounded great but nowhere near the output I'm used to.

forrest · Post by **forrest** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:48 pm

Bfowler wrote:i dont think a single x1200.1 is quite enough to give the ti elite justice. i would go zpa personally. a pair of x600.1's(they usually put out~850@4ohms) (or even another 1200.1) would be another good pick

so...what do i have to do to get a ride in that thing? where in Portland are you? i might have seen you at some bimmerfourms meets

I missed this earlier. I never thought of using the 600.1's. I already have 1, I would just need 3 more. I don't ever see any for sale and I can't wait that long to find them, but it would probably work out the best.
I live in St Helens. I haven't had this car at a meet in a very long time, like 7-8 years. I also have a avus blue 95 M3 with a stage 2+ supercharger. Her is a recent pic of the car this is for. btw, featured in eurotuner in may 03' and performance bmw in march of 04. A LOT has changed since then

shawn k · Post by **shawn k** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:55 pm

That looks great man! Mean..yet..elegant. I like it!

dvnt88 · Post by **dvnt88** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:42 pm

forrest wrote:
kg1961 wrote:x1200.1 with birth sheet will hit the 1300-1400 range more than you need you will get less out of a zpa? if you use 2 you can run into alot of problems setting
also the zpa was a non finished production model they look cool but not for me
i would take a ms or even a rsd any day less bs modding ect. you mid will not need more than 480 rms
my x200.2 does 486rms all day for sub duty
both the zpa and x love and need 8volts so what do you have to increase the signal ?
not say your old subs were not good just have you ever heard a 12el powered right tuned and ported sound like 2-3 above average sub to me
and such and small car after the trunk is filled
i just would not do the amp or amps that needs more power amps current, make more heat and get you less power other than old school why bother?
enjoy the cool set up either way will look great if done right
Cutting the diodes on the zpa's is supposed to get you to about 1600rms so a good 2-300 more than the xenon. I always hear people say it needs 1500+ witch the xenons fall a bit shy of doing. I have several line drivers from the tbat, pld, tld66, tld22, and a matrix, so no issue with them getting 8 volts. I bought 1 of my elites from dvnt88 and listened to it in his car with a ti1200.1 before I bought it. It sounded great but nowhere near the output I'm used to.

What you heard was barely turned up as the TI1200.1 was putting out over 1400wrms at 4 0hm bridged, just didn't wanna blow out a $1200 piece of glass. enjoy the sub bro.

forrest · Post by **forrest** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:20 am

Plans have changed a little. I am now going to run hybrid audio 3 way up front active. Also picked up a jbl ms-8. So I will likely be choosing to power these off the xenons because more sizes of xenons are available to power everything appropriately. I'll likely put the ZPA's and Ground Zero subs in my truck

Post by **stipud** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:16 am

I suggest running two ZPAs on one Ti12D elite (one per coil)

Same footprint as a Xenon but nearly double the power. The Elites love the extra power in my experience... they just start waking up at 1200.

avalanchels · Post by **avalanchels** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:28 am

forrest wrote:Plans have changed a little. I am now going to run hybrid audio 3 way up front active. Also picked up a jbl ms-8. So I will likely be choosing to power these off the xenons because more sizes of xenons are available to power everything appropriately. I'll likely put the ZPA's and Ground Zero subs in my truck

I knew you wouldn't be able to let go of the Nukes!

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

denim · Post by **denim** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:04 pm

Bfowler wrote:i dont think a single x1200.1 is quite enough to give the ti elite justice. i would go zpa personally. a pair of x600.1's(they usually put out~850@4ohms) (or even another 1200.1) would be another good pick

so...what do i have to do to get a ride in that thing? where in Portland are you? i might have seen you at some bimmerfourms meets

Really? I thought they were more efficient then that.

forrest · Post by **forrest** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:46 pm

OK, so things have changed again, and I need help
I am now going to run a pair of the old ti12d elites off of an elite.1 . enclosure should come out to about 1.4 for each sub sealed
Processing will be handled by a JBL MS-8, 3 way active front stage
Hybrid Audio L6v2 in kicks off of a xenon 200.4 bridged
Hybrid Audio L3 in doors off of one side of a xenon 200.4
Hybrid Audio L1proR2 in doors off the other side of the 200.4
Do I need a line driver? I'm not sure if the new elite's need one or not? I've heard the xenons like them to get full power but the amps are rated at twice the power that I'll actually be using. So in my mind not necessary . What do you think?
Should I install a bass cube? It seems to me that 4000 watts running a pair of elite 12's should be plenty without a bass cube. Your thought on this?
I'm trying to keep the install as clean and simple as possible.
Thanks for your input

Drock · Post by **Drock** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:37 pm

I would use the line driver. I also am using the ms8. And it sounds amazing. Huge difference. But it only outputs max 2.8v. I had a huge decrease in output from my amps. I had to put the line driver after the ms8. Night and day

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zeropoint0.5 · Post by **zeropoint0.5** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:25 am

use you're zpa0.5's to feed all of you're front system and you will not believe you're ears

but feed them with you're tbat balanced driver....

you probably did the right descision of buying the elite.1

my thoughts are a modded zpa0.5 will give you 1500w rms for 15min and then the shit begins.....

there are probably way better SUBWOOFERS amps.......

but the zpa0.5 is UNBELIEVABLE, especially in the mid en the high frequencies......

forrest · Post by **forrest** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:20 pm

I would love to use the ZPA's but they won't fit. I built a hinged amp rack that is attached the rear deck and the zpa's are to wide to fit in that area. So xenon's are what I'm using. I like that the aluminum finish of the xenons match the elite subs as well.
I haven't heard anything about the new elite amps needing a line driver. Does anyone know ?

Drock · Post by **Drock** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:52 pm

I doubt the elite needs a line driver. But I just know that ms8 knocked my signal from 4v from my h/u to 2.8. So I noticed a significant drop in volume when using the ms8.

forrest · Post by **forrest** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:37 pm

Anybody have any input on if I should use a bass cube or not?

Drock · Post by **Drock** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:19 pm

I had never even heard of the cube till a little while ago. I recently installed one and it made a huge and very noticeable difference. I really like it and recommend it if you can find one.

zeropoint0.5 · Post by **zeropoint0.5** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:24 am

Drock wrote:I had never even heard of the cube till a little while ago. I recently installed one and it made a huge and very noticeable difference. I really like it and recommend it if you can find one.

correct !!! if you're subs can handle it, you can get amazing results with it........

high Q for going loud, low Q for sound quality,

fixed subsonic for sealed enclosures, tracking subsonic for vented/bandpass enclosures......

only for people who prefer a flat sub responce will not like it......

MW3 · Post by **MW3** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:32 am

Elite amplifiers do not need a line driver. Any reasonable head unit output can drive them to maximum power with the sensitivity at a reasonable low level.