MPS 2240 Upgrades

[wooferdog]

Happy New Year and welcome to the phorum!!

[Xtian]

Thank you very much..!!
best wishes for all..

[Eric D]

funny how everyone is hassling about the 2125 while i asked a question about the 2240....??

and eric you're right, one speaker is faulty wired, that is corrected after i first connected it, these pics are right after i finished it..
and i did'nt reduce the value of the caps..the 2240 had: 15000µf 25V now: 22000µf 25V
2125 had: 10000µf 40V now: 22000µf 40V
the psu caps were 2200µf 16V on both, now 10000µf 16V

Fine, your MPS2240 looks just as bad to me as the MS2125 does with vomit brown caps in it.

I never said you did reduce the value of the caps. I was pointing out that replacing the caps won't make the amp sound better, but reducing them will make it sound worse.

If anything, since you replaced the caps with such larger values than stock, there is a slight chance it actually makes the amp sound worse. Higher capacitance generally means greater internal resistance, which means the caps takes longer to react to changes. So, you may have actually increased the ripple voltage on your rails to both your amplifiers. I doubt this would be audible, but I do find it funny your efforts to make the amp sound so much better (as you point out in your disrespect to another member here), probably just made it sound worse.

[ttocs]

thanks eric I was trying to get the point to him that this falls well short of a burr-brown update and will yield little/0 better sounding sq but I guess there are other people on here that are not too smart either..... I would be happy to surround myself with people like yerself....

[Xtian]

The guy who pointed me out to those caps is Iwan Vinck, a belgian phoenix dealer who
won the european iasca finals twice in the early 90's with one MPS2500.
I know the guy about 18 years now, he also made the install in the new beetle for Boston acoustics europe with the TI amps..
http://www.arcdeurne.be/ARC-deurne-prod ... &p=75&s=73

he told me the use of 2 yellowtop's without charger or alternator (they charge at night) gives no problem using these caps..

[Eric D]

thanks eric I was trying to get the point to him that this falls well short of a burr-brown update and will yield little/0 better sounding sq but I guess there are other people on here that are not too smart either..... I would be happy to surround myself with people like yerself....

Even upgrading the components (like Op-amps for example) with Burr Brown ones probably won't make an audible difference. Any of the mods discussed in this thread (caps, wires, op-amps, etc) are just for bragging rights not for performance gains. PG amps use a lot of feedback in their design. High feedback amps can get away with lower quality parts (not saying PG used lower quality, just that they don't HAVE to use higher quality). Putting a Burr Brown op-amp in a PG amp will just revert any gain back to where it was at before.

Off the top of my head there is only one real PG mod worth performing. That is the expansion of the amps frequency response down to 0Hz (DC). In the MS2250TA I modded some time ago, I actually removed all the capacitors in the signal path of the amp and replaced them with wires (shorts). This allowed the amp to amplify even a DC signal.

Now if you can hear that or not, that is another story (I sure as heck cannot). However, it is widely known amongst audiophiles designs with no capacitance in the signal path are more desirable.

[Eric D]

The guy who pointed me out to those caps is Iwan Vinck, a belgian phoenix dealer who
won the european iasca finals twice in the early 90's with one MPS2500.
I know the guy about 18 years now, he also made the install in the new beetle for Boston acoustics europe with the TI amps..
http://www.arcdeurne.be/ARC-deurne-prod ... &p=75&s=73

he told me the use of 2 yellowtop's without charger or alternator (they charge at night) gives no problem using these caps..

Good for you!

The knowledge I have on these amplifier mods we are discussing was taught to me by Ben Dover, winner of the 1954 IASCA American finals. He also said it is best to use a single blue top, single red top, and a single yellow top all in one installation, as the colors make all the batteries work better.

So what is your point?

[Xtian]

Off the top of my head there is only one real PG mod worth performing. That is the expansion of the amps frequency response down to 0Hz (DC). In the MS2250TA I modded some time ago, I actually removed all the capacitors in the signal path of the amp and replaced them with wires (shorts). This allowed the amp to amplify even a DC signal.

that's the kind of info i'm looking for, i've read a article about someone who did this on his home amp, but he also warned for the slightest DC offset on your pre amp output, he claimed the amp is at risk without the caps..

you might not hear much below 20hz but with a decent sub you will definitely feel it, maybe a cyclone..or 2

[wooferdog]

i tried those battery colors and replaced the blue top with a black battery from advance auto parts and it sounded so much better i had to remove the tweeters and put in smaller power wire and the sound stage was so HUGE!

[freshkryp69]

We need a list of mods that can be done to the PG.amps, wether or not they make it sound better is..whatever. The list would be kickass....and a good way for someone on here to make some extra EASY money..

[Xtian]

http://www.soundlabsgroup.com.au/c/Capa ... lytic.html

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-va ... itors.html
well, i guess they're all lying about the difference in quality of caps


and about the optima batteries, i was just pointing out that there is no incoming ripple current at the amp
because there is no charger or alternator in the system (they charge at night).

• How can one judge things he never tried??

[ttocs]

well of course you can hear the difference in the loss of ripple current, who the hell can't hear that? Alot of people claiming they hear things is all it seems to me. Why is it every european I meet is an audiophile that can hear the loss of ripple current and the difference in caps? Is it something to do with the euro or something or does paying the high import taxes on this stuff just make you listen to it more?

[Xtian]

maybe the fact that we're talking about a home set up makes me listen to it more..

[Xtian]

The rail caps are not in the output signal path, how could they be?

How can they not be in the output signal path if they're connected to the same point as the speakerterminal?

and this is a honest question, i'm getting a little tired of the mocking reply's...

[wooferdog]

that terminal is the ground,it really is not in the signal path. you could hook your speaker right to the power terminal ground if you want and probably get the same result. i think it's only difference is it goes thru a torrid first before the caps in the picture.

[Xtian]

True, these connections are the speaker grounds
but after i rewired the speakercables(as it was original) the right channel is running from the speaker ground connection on the board to positive connection at the terminals..

[ttocs]

your a former dealer, who knows former dealers, who swapped some caps and admitted that you added no additional power on the first mps amp you have ever owned but by spending too much on caps now claims to have the holy grail of mps sq amps. Why would we be doubtfull?

[Xtian]

More then that I would pay to see the person that can hear the difference in the caps installed and tell the difference in the two.

if you give a mocking reply without any reason, i will give you one back..
i never said anything about holy grail... that's what you made of it..
i said there was a difference..

I'm not convinced a cap change will make a wider stage and better imaging but the caps you replaced were obviously faulty so maybe you just restored the amps sonic capabilities back to factory stock

Mark.

possibly... not going to argue that

as mark made a very good point in a normal and polite manner, he got a normal and polite reply..
as for now i'll stick with mark's answer because that's making the most sense..

[Eric D]

The rail caps are not in the output signal path, how could they be?

SANY0017-2.jpg

How can they not be in the output signal path if they're connected to the same point as the speakerterminal?

and this is a honest question, i'm getting a little tired of the mocking reply's...

Great, so your fuse block, main power cable, alternator, power window motor, keyless entry, and headlights are all in the signal path as well.

Just because the capacitor connects to the speaker ground does not mean it is in the signal path.

[ttocs]

More then that I would pay to see the person that can hear the difference in the caps installed and tell the difference in the two.

I think your not very bright hey mate..??
everything you change in the signal path makes a difference, the railcaps are actually in the output signal path.
And i didn't only change the caps did i? The more changes you make the more difference.

There will allways be some people who say there's no difference between a 5$ interconnect and a 500$ interconnect.....

I never threw out an insult, or made any comments until I was insulted for "not being too smart" Maybe it is ok to throw out an insult as long as you finish it in "MATE" in your country but where I come from as I said before it is strange way to get into a good group of guys.

As the post went on and you admitted its your first mps amp but that the soundstage was now wider with a few caps and 14" of wire, with out a doubt you kept digging. If you find yourself in a hole that you would like to get out of, the first step is to stop digging.

[ttocs]

The rail caps are not in the output signal path, how could they be?

SANY0017-2.jpg

How can they not be in the output signal path if they're connected to the same point as the speakerterminal?

and this is a honest question, i'm getting a little tired of the mocking reply's...

Great, so your fuse block, main power cable, alternator, power window motor, keyless entry, and headlights are all in the signal path as well.



Just because the capacitor connects to the speaker ground does not mean it is in the signal path.

lol - That is why I replaced all of those pieces with handbuilt german audiophile pieces. It completely turned my soundstage upside down..... I never actually listened to it much prior to listening to these things but now when I sit and listen to it I find it much easier to convince myself that I did not waste my time.

[Xtian]

It completely turned my soundstage upside down.....

well then i hope you also turned your carseat upside down..

More then that I would pay to see the person that can hear the difference in the caps installed and tell the difference in the two.

in my country this is like saying you have the best set of ears in the world.. and everybody else has less hearing capability then you.. and don't get me wrong, that's possible, but i doubt it strongly..

[ttocs]

It completely turned my soundstage upside down.....

well then i hope you also turned your carseat upside down..

More then that I would pay to see the person that can hear the difference in the caps installed and tell the difference in the two.

in my country this is like saying you have the best set of ears in the world.. and everybody else has less hearing capability then you.. and don't get me wrong, that's possible, but i doubt it strongly..

I was able to correct the upside-down-ness by wiring every speaker I had out of phase and it fixed it. but then again I aint so bright.

I feel its a bit presumptuous that you think that 14" of wire, "special" caps makes your listenening of the amp(1rst one you have owned) suddenly better. I would put more weight on the matter if you had them in the past and were familiar with them. To come to the place where we discuss it regularly to tell us that we are wrong because you use to be a dealer and still know dealers = 0 = nothing. I have worked for more then a couple of people that knew DICK about car audio and yet they owned the shop and we sold the pg line. Having sold it at one time does not earn you a pedigree that would suddenly make me take your word as gospel. Eric has forgot 10x what you ever knew and most of us around here go by the mantra that if you want respect you have to give it.


take care!

[Eric D]

It completely turned my soundstage upside down.....

well then i hope you also turned your carseat upside down..

More then that I would pay to see the person that can hear the difference in the caps installed and tell the difference in the two.

in my country this is like saying you have the best set of ears in the world.. and everybody else has less hearing capability then you.. and don't get me wrong, that's possible, but i doubt it strongly..

You seem to be the one claiming to hear better than anyone else...

Happy x-mas and merry new year to you...

[Xtian]

To come to the place where we discuss it regularly to tell us that we are wrong because you use to be a dealer

did i ever said you were wrong??

Eric has forgot 10x what you ever knew and most of us around here go by the mantra that if you want respect you have to give it.

you guys saying i was lying about hearing difference isn't very respectfull either..



thx for the help..