CAPACITORS INSIDE PG M100

6thgear · Post by **6thgear** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:19 pm

Hi,i'm Ivan and I write from Italy.
I have a question for you:
i'm going tu buy a PG M100...USED....but looking inside pics of many owners some amplifiers have six capacitors in the supply line (this is my case)

while other amplifiers that i look in web pics have only two capacitors
for example:
http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/Pho ... nside1.jpg

why???it is normal or wrong?????

and...second question...do you see leaking from supply capacitors in the first pic?what is this????it is wrong?????
can i buy this amplifier quietly?
very thanks to all
best regards IVAN

dgoodhue · Post by **dgoodhue** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:37 pm

6 is what the M100 of my Outlaw has. You can't tell if they are leaking unless they have already burned up the board.

1moreamp · Post by **1moreamp** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:50 pm

Slip some clean white paper under each of the caps. It upon withdrawal the paper has any liquid on it, then your caps are leaking.

Doc Fosgate here on this forum has a post about this issue. It happens on this age of equipment with regularity, So don't be surprised if yours are bad.

I personally just replaced the input caps on 6 different M series amp for people right here on this forum.

Don't be fooled into thinking it won't happen to you. It seems to be happening to everyones M series amps. Caps only last so long, and these amps have lived way past the average shelf life of caps built back when this amp was made.

Welcome aboard ! C

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:00 pm

1moreamp wrote:Slip some clean white paper under each of the caps. It upon withdrawal the paper has any liquid on it, then your caps are leaking.

Doc Fosgate here on this forum has a post about this issue. It happens on this age of equipment with regularity, So don't be surprised if yours are bad.

I personally just replaced the input caps on 6 different M series amp for people right here on this forum.

Don't be fooled into thinking it won't happen to you. It seems to be happening to everyones M series amps. Caps only last so long, and these amps have lived way past the average shelf life of caps built back when this amp was made.

Welcome aboard ! C

Speaking of which, I need to get my ass in action! I'm going to be number 7 (among other, much more serious issues)

I was goig to derail this thread but I won't. I'll take what I wanted to to say to PM.

6thgear · Post by **6thgear** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:57 pm

fuzzysnuggleduck wrote:
1moreamp wrote:Slip some clean white paper under each of the caps. It upon withdrawal the paper has any liquid on it, then your caps are leaking.

Doc Fosgate here on this forum has a post about this issue. It happens on this age of equipment with regularity, So don't be surprised if yours are bad.

I personally just replaced the input caps on 6 different M series amp for people right here on this forum.

Don't be fooled into thinking it won't happen to you. It seems to be happening to everyones M series amps. Caps only last so long, and these amps have lived way past the average shelf life of caps built back when this amp was made.

Welcome aboard ! C
Speaking of which, I need to get my ass in action! I'm going to be number 7 (among other, much more serious issues)

I was goig to derail this thread but I won't. I'll take what I wanted to to say to PM.

Sorry...I don't understand....THIS AMPLIFIER IS A GOOD PURCHASE?
YOU RECOMMEND IT TO ME OR NOT???

fordtough1 · Post by **fordtough1** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:34 pm

I think they are saying that if the price is right you can't go wrong with an M series amp. However, you are going to have to replace the capacitors or you will likely end up with a burnt circuit board.

Does that about cover it?

6thgear · Post by **6thgear** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:40 pm

240 EURO....

1moreamp · Post by **1moreamp** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:43 pm

Its a great amp !

But its a old amp, And so well built it is loved by many today. But Capacitors go bad with age and must be replaced. The paper test is simple, non invasive or destructive testing for Bad Caps.

And bad caps happen to all amps with time.

You amp pictured looks wonderful, in fact it looks to be brand new, BUT Capacitors have a shelf live like batteries, and that information should be kept in mind when buying any amp over 10 years old. And yes the M series is over Ten years old

I would buy the amp in the picture above, BUT I also would look into replacing the capacitors just after buying it. When Caps go bad they leak Electrolyte on to the circuit board underneath the cap, and this is a chemical that eats up the gold and copper traced and the heat build up causes the fiberglass material in the circuit board to Burn up.

I hope this was more clearly presented to you this tome

itchnertamatoa · Post by **itchnertamatoa** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:27 pm

240 euro is like US$320.00 or so
I would dzfinitely pick it up at that price
caps don't cost that much and are easy to replace so....

Go for it

BTW welcome onboard

marko · Post by **marko** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:34 pm

i never saw an m100 with only 2 caps

clean amp though and caps in m series amps are easy to replace

vin78 · Post by **vin78** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:52 pm

Internally that's a very clean amp.

Here's Doc's leaking cap tutorial, its the M100 section of the Outlaw, so it pretty much identical.

http://www.soundbuggy.com/Eric/Car%20Au ... index.html

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:06 pm

6thgear wrote: Sorry...I don't understand....THIS AMPLIFIER IS A GOOD PURCHASE?
YOU RECOMMEND IT TO ME OR NOT???

Hell yes. My M100 was insanity while driving 2 x PG XS124 sub @ 2 ohms bridged (However, 2 ohms doesn't provide more power than 4 ohms in the M series).

I love it so much, I'm having it sent down to Cecil for repairs as well as preventative maintenance (replacing the caps).

I'm (was) running my M100 along side an M44 for the front components and is seriously awesome

mrblack · Post by **mrblack** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:38 pm

I'm thinking that 2nd amp shown is one that Dr Fosgate repaired at one time, and in doing so used 2 larger sized caps in replacement. All M100's I've come across have had 6 caps.

Post by **Wakeup** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:55 pm

mrblack wrote:I'm thinking that 2nd amp shown is one that Dr Fosgate repaired at one time, and in doing so used 2 larger sized caps in replacement. All M100's I've come across have had 6 caps.

Ya thats a posibility. He supplied quite a few amp guts pictures i am sure.

6thgear · Post by **6thgear** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:04 pm

thera are other pics of the M100 that i'm goin to buy:

comments?

marko · Post by **marko** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:18 pm

bottom right cap looks like it has some gunge at the bottom......

1moreamp · Post by **1moreamp** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:38 pm

There leaking !!!!! replace them right away , its not "gunge" its electrolyte from inside the cap leaking out at the wires underneath

"CAP ALERT" please replace your caps soon < spoken like a BMW >

vin78 · Post by **vin78** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:45 pm

Every M series amp that I own leaked, so theres a good chance that you will be too.

1moreamp · Post by **1moreamp** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:32 pm

ALL of these particular 2200ufd 16 volt caps seem to have a very poor history. They are used in both M series ans MS, and MPS, and MQ amps, and Sapphire line also. I also would expect to see them in MAC amps, and any LE amp like the Outlaw, Bandit, etc....all the way into the ZPA line I believe.

These caps seem to be prone to this sort of bad behavior. Good old Doc Fosgate was really on to this issue. I also believe he did a excellent job of bringing it to everyones attention in the past. Credit due, where credit deserved

I have just recently acquired a large inventory of replacements all Nicichon 105 degree C type at twice the original value and half the size also. And some triple valued replacements that are a tad skinnier then the originals. All top grade 105's and high ripple current rated, low ESR.

itchnertamatoa · Post by **itchnertamatoa** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:10 pm

1moreamp wrote:ALL of these particular 2200ufd 16 volt caps seem to have a very poor history. They are used in both M series ans MS, and MPS, and MQ amps, and Sapphire line also. I also would expect to see them in MAC amps, and any LE amp like the Outlaw, Bandit, etc....all the way into the ZPA line I believe.

These caps seem to be prone to this sort of bad behavior. Good old Doc Fosgate was really on to this issue. I also believe he did a excellent job of bringing it to everyones attention in the past. Credit due, where credit deserved

I have just recently acquired a large inventory of replacements all Nicichon 105 degree C type at twice the original value and half the size also. And some triple valued replacements that are a tad skinnier then the originals. All top grade 105's and high ripple current rated, low ESR.

mmmmm, interesting
I think these will fit nicely in the 430 you currently have

1moreamp · Post by **1moreamp** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:24 pm

Got ya covered Tam

brenzbmr@sb · Post by **brenzbmr@sb** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:04 pm

did my caps in my ms2125 and mq430

1moreamp · Post by **1moreamp** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:17 pm

Clean job, but what the heck is that your hooked up to a drill battery power supply

Or is that a new Mikita super cap

Funning aside you did a real clean job.

Oh I have had to rework some other folks cap jobs lately. Please use a big enough soldering station to melt the solder properly so you don't pull out the Vias of copper that PG used to connect both sides of the board together. this is important not just for holding the cap in place, but for electrical conductivity for the amp....Just a FYI for my friends.... C

thingy · Post by **thingy** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:13 am

just checked my m amps - fine for the moment, but can anyone tell me why only half the screws in the bottom are goldplated ?

vin78 · Post by **vin78** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:15 am

thingy wrote:can anyone tell me why only half the screws in the bottom are goldplated ?

That's normal. I have no idea why PG didn't use all gold screws.