Amps and Subwoofers?

Post by **bdubs767** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:50 pm

When your in a car riding down the road does it really matter all that much what amp you have and what subwoofer you have? I'm not saying they wont sound different in perfect conditions but w/ eqing a system properly does it really matter in a car moving 30 mph?

I know it may sound ludacris but honestly of late I am really thinking that install, tunning, and the amount of tunning ability in a car will bring it to the point where a amp and sub doesn't really even matter.

disclaimer Im assuming the amp has enough power to run your speaker w/o clipping and your subs has the ability once eq'ed to play flat w/ your system.

Confusedsoul · Post by **Confusedsoul** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:15 pm

Maybe if all subwoofers were made the the same. I still think what a woofer consists of will change its sonic signature despite it playing flat. But I see what you mean.

Post by **bdubs767** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:22 pm

Confusedsoul wrote:Maybe if all subwoofers were made the the same. I still think what a woofer consists of will change its sonic signature despite it playing flat. But I see what you mean.

Possibly but honestly the more I think about it and the last few sets of subs I used, once fully eqed w/ the rta, honestly I don't know if could hear the difference while driving down the road.

Confusedsoul · Post by **Confusedsoul** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:26 pm

Like I said, I suppose it is possible, I've never switched subs fast enough after running a set for so long to tell.

Post by **mr tibbs** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:00 pm

Isn't that where sound deadning comes into play? That's why people put so much of that stuff in the floor boards and the roof of the vehicle, to stop all that road noise while going down the road and try and control the environment as much as possible.

Post by **bdubs767** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:21 pm

mr tibbs wrote:as much as possible.

But you will never stop it I dont think...

Confusedsoul · Post by **Confusedsoul** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:06 pm

bdubs767 wrote:......

Also, I got to thinking about the review you did that included the RSd and the alumapro. You had said the alumapro had almost no overhang on the bass notes (and I agree, these things are what most would consider very fast drivers). I don't think any amount of eq'ing would compensate for that. Amplifier power maybe for a little more control, and possibly different box sizes (but that could seriously hurt any other drivers initial response). It doesn't take much power to get the full potential of the alumapro, only 500w or 600w will make full use of that driver as you found out, but it sounds damn good on it.

Post by **bdubs767** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:17 pm

Confusedsoul wrote:
bdubs767 wrote:......
Also, I got to thinking about the review you did that included the RSd and the alumapro. You had said the alumapro had almost no overhang on the bass notes (and I agree, these things are what most would consider very fast drivers).

Actually you can counter it w/ eqing. I've found thay peaks in the response usually are attributed to the "overahng" .

As for the power yes I agree that will def play a facotr, but I'm thinking on reference to sonics.

Confusedsoul · Post by **Confusedsoul** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:23 pm

Assuming its possible to eq it, I still have to think that maybe its more trouble than its worth. I'd rather find a sub that responded best to my vehicle. One that took minimal eqing to acheive flatness. But I spose anythings possible.

Post by **bdubs767** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:34 pm

Confusedsoul wrote:Assuming its possible to eq it, I still have to think that maybe its more trouble than its worth. I'd rather find a sub that responded best to my vehicle. One that took minimal eqing to acheive flatness. But I spose anythings possible.

O yes I would agree less eqing always better, but when you have the eq capability honestly is the price worth say a w7 vs a run of the mill 12?

Confusedsoul · Post by **Confusedsoul** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:02 pm

bdubs767 wrote:
Confusedsoul wrote:Assuming its possible to eq it, I still have to think that maybe its more trouble than its worth. I'd rather find a sub that responded best to my vehicle. One that took minimal eqing to acheive flatness. But I spose anythings possible.
O yes I would agree less eqing always better, but when you have the eq capability honestly is the price worth say a w7 vs a run of the mill 12?

Oh no, I'm not saying that, but it would take a pretty darn nice eq to take care of the sonic characteristics of one sub over the other plus flatten the response. Might get kinda spendy, plus it would take some knowledge one might not have. Just saying.

Post by **mr tibbs** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:18 pm

bdubs767 wrote:
mr tibbs wrote:as much as possible.
But you will never stop it I dont think...

I don't think you can ever stop it, hence the "as much as possible". I do OTOH feel that with enough deadning you can easily tell the difference between subs even at 30 or 50 mph. JMHO.

Post by **bdubs767** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:22 pm

mr tibbs wrote:I do OTOH feel that with enough deadning you can easily tell the difference between subs even at 30 or 50 mph. JMHO.

That hasnt been EQed properly i will agree 100% which has been reflected in ym sub reviews but once eqed.........I dont know honestly.

Another factor is that the car enviroment is so bad vs a home which also plays a huge factor.

Post by **mr tibbs** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:24 pm

Interesting question I suppose. Do you think this is the same for mids and tweets? If not why?

Post by **bdubs767** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:32 pm

mr tibbs wrote:Interesting question I suppose. Do you think this is the same for mids and tweets? If not why?

Not at all...because of the dynamic range they play. THere is no way any EQ can fix what they play. Also are ears are so much more sensitive to what they play.

Post by **mr tibbs** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:35 pm

bdubs767 wrote: THere is no way any EQ can fix what they play.

WHAT?? Now your just trying to confuse me. Look at any EQ out there, almost all of the adjustable bands on it are for the mids and tweets. What am I missing?

Confusedsoul · Post by **Confusedsoul** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:39 pm

bdubs767 wrote:
mr tibbs wrote:Interesting question I suppose. Do you think this is the same for mids and tweets? If not why?
Not at all...because of the dynamic range they play. THere is no way any EQ can fix what they play. Also are ears are so much more sensitive to what they play.

True, plus the difference between metal and soft dome tweets is huge.

Post by **bdubs767** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:40 pm

mr tibbs wrote:
bdubs767 wrote: THere is no way any EQ can fix what they play.
WHAT?? Now your just trying to confuse me. Look at any EQ out there, almost all of the adjustable bands on it are for the mids and tweets. What am I missing?

well it can fix what they play in a sense, but your talking about 50hz to 20khz and have only say 25 abnds w/ the nest eqs vs like 3 bands for the sub. See what Im saying ? Along with the idea your ears are so much more sensitive to those ranges....

Post by **mr tibbs** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:00 pm

Actually I'm confused as all hell, are you saying you can't control the mids and tweets with the EQ or the subs??

Post by **bdubs767** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:23 pm

mr tibbs wrote:Actually I'm confused as all hell, are you saying you can't control the mids and tweets with the EQ or the subs??

Ill try to explain later after the game. Cant focus during a game 7 lol

Post by **mr tibbs** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:32 pm

bdubs767 wrote:
mr tibbs wrote:Actually I'm confused as all hell, are you saying you can't control the mids and tweets with the EQ or the subs??

Ill try to explain later after the game. Cant focus during a game 7 lol

totally understand, I'm watching too!

Confusedsoul · Post by **Confusedsoul** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:49 pm

I think what he means, is that while you could use the eq on the mids and tweets, the frequency range they play vs the frequency range you can control with the eq is far too great. A sub usually plays 20hz-65/75hz while the mids and tweets cover from around 65/75hz all the way to 20khz+. Even with more eq bands for use in the upper ranges, still won't compensate near enough for all the different surfaces, reflections, etc in the car nor how sensitive we are to different sounds at the higher frequencies.

Subs are hard to localize when crossed over properly to blend in with the rest of your system whereas the mids and highs, because we're so sensitive to them, are very easy to do just that. We're talkin 40-50hz to control with 2-5 bands of eq vs 19k hz+ with I don't know, 15-25 bands. I still don't think you'd have enough eq to compensate for bass overhang plus eqing the subs flat, but it might be possible given enough eq, if he's done it before.

That what you were meaning, or something close anyway?

Post by **bdubs767** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:46 am

Confusedsoul wrote:I think what he means, is that while you could use the eq on the mids and tweets, the frequency range they play vs the frequency range you can control with the eq is far too great. A sub usually plays 20hz-65/75hz while the mids and tweets cover from around 65/75hz all the way to 20khz+. Even with more eq bands for use in the upper ranges, still won't compensate near enough for all the different surfaces, reflections, etc in the car nor how sensitive we are to different sounds at the higher frequencies.

Subs are hard to localize when crossed over properly to blend in with the rest of your system whereas the mids and highs, because we're so sensitive to them, are very easy to do just that. We're talkin 40-50hz to control with 2-5 bands of eq vs 19k hz+ with I don't know, 15-25 bands. I still don't think you'd have enough eq to compensate for bass overhang plus eqing the subs flat, but it might be possible given enough eq, if he's done it before.

That what you were meaning, or something close anyway?

thank you lol

Post by **VW337** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:52 pm

Dubs, get somebody to drive you around at 30mph all day while you RTA and eq your system, because you have a very valid point, when was the last time you were not driving while enjoying your system?