Elite 6 mids and aperiodic membrane enclosure

RATIFIED · Post by **RATIFIED** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:47 pm

Just wondering if anyone has tried a AP enclosure using the Elite mids? Looking into my doors, there is very little room to make a decent enclosure to house these, unless I get VERY creative with some 'glass. Just want to get the most out these mids and this seems like a good way to go. Thanks for any input!!

Post by **bdubs767** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:08 pm

you have to play around with the thickness of the membrane to get it right...

Never tired, always wanted to but hey...look up audionutz how to on eca

Post by **bdubs767** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:10 pm

also make sure the drivers qts is below .45 and jsut fyi make sure you have TONS OF POWER. AP enclosure murder efficiency, add that with the 4 order slopes on the passive oxver...power will be needed

RATIFIED · Post by **RATIFIED** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:20 pm

Qts of the Elite 6s is .33, so I'm ok there. As far as power, right now I'm running a Boston Acoustics GT-40 bridged to each side of the Elite set; rated 190w RMS per side. I'm thinking of going to 2 Boston GT-22s; one per side; giving me a rated 350w RMS per side. I like headroom plus the stereo seperation will be outstanding!

That should give me more than enough juice; I hope

I do have spare Elite 6 which is a bonus to use to do a little experimenting out of the truck to get it rough tuned

Post by **Eric D** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:20 pm

Wait, wait, wait…

I think you have your system backwards.

You need to get rid of the Boston amps and get some Boston components, and get rid of the PG speakers and get some PG amps.

RATIFIED · Post by **RATIFIED** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:41 pm

Don't like the Boston amps??

Had 2 Ti600.2, sold those and got a single Xenon 200.4. That thing went out in one week and had more problems than I've EVER had with any audio gear. Tried some Tru Technology but ended up with the Bostons due to smaller size with fan forced cooling and ability to realiably handle bridged 2ohm loads. Not much room to mount amps in a crew cab Colorado.
I have thought about getting rid of the PG Elites and trying the new Pioneer Premier comps in a active setup. I had some Boston Pros many, many moons ago; when the tweets were titanium; and I loved those things!

Post by **bdubs767** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:46 pm

RATIFIED wrote:trying the new Pioneer Premier comps in a active setup

Nice idea

But go big Seas w18nx and Seas neo. Best two way possible IMO w/ compact dome. To bad i may give in soon and go back to three way...me want some 10s in the front doors

RATIFIED · Post by **RATIFIED** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:04 pm

My wife would kill me if I told her I spent $700+ on some speakers.Last time I did that was for some Focals. $300 on the Pioneers, she would go for.

444 FED · Post by **444 FED** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:15 pm

I haven't tried AP on mids... yet.

I had a pair of 15s in an AP "enclosure", in my 1985 Skyhawk, and man did I love the sound of that, I'm seriously considering it again, with 4 Xenon 10s in my Malibu, but don't really want to lose the ability to fold down my back seats for utility purposes. I found with my last set up I HAD to seal off the trunk completly from the cabin, to get any real output and better SQ. The seat back itself doesn't block enough of the rear wave to cut out cancellation. I even had the "enclosure" taking up most of the area behind the seat, so there was very little area for sound to get past, but was enough to make a difference.

Post by **bdubs767** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:16 pm

RATIFIED wrote:My wife would kill me if I told her I spent $700+ on some speakers.Last time I did that was for some Focals. $300 on the Pioneers, she would go for.

def not $700

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/produc ... ts_id=1596
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/produc ... cts_id=633

I may sell both mine soon for your $300 price, so stay tuned. Just not sure if I really want to go back to three way or not, dealing with phase is such a bitch w/ three speakers up front.

RATIFIED · Post by **RATIFIED** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:25 pm

See now you're just trying to get me into trouble!

Dont know if I will have enough power to push those mids though. Amp is only rated @ 55 watts at 4 ohm per channel. Going into 8 ohms would put it around 30ish.

soth · Post by **soth** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:31 pm

Eric D wrote:Wait, wait, wait…

I think you have your system backwards.

You need to get rid of the Boston amps and get some Boston components, and get rid of the PG speakers and get some PG amps.

X2!

Post by **mr tibbs** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:22 pm

RATIFIED wrote:See now you're just trying to get me into trouble!

Dont know if I will have enough power to push those mids though. Amp is only rated @ 55 watts at 4 ohm per channel. Going into 8 ohms would put it around 30ish.

Yes they are 8 ohm, but the efficiency is up so it all works out. I too am running Seas mids (but with LPG tweets), and it sounds great!

Here is some reading to help explain.

RATIFIED · Post by **RATIFIED** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:20 am

VERY good info there!! That explains a lot! I cant believe all these years I've had my hands in car audio, that I haven't seen this or actually paid more attention to the basic formulas. *kicks self That just opened a whole new can of worms! So, I should be able to get the same rough output out of my sub then too; dual 4ohm currently wired to 2ohms-going to try 8ohm series. Not to mention all the extra potential (headroom) left in the amp running at the higher impedences and all the other benefits. I guess we have been marketed to death over the years to believe the lower the better!

RATIFIED · Post by **RATIFIED** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:38 am

Switched the sub over and the sound actually improved! Much more controlled now!
Any other mid recommendations? Those Seas listed above wont fit without a good thick spacer! I had some Dynaudio MW160 in the doors before, but it took a 3/4" spacer which made the door panels push out.

Post by **bdubs767** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:55 am

RATIFIED wrote:Switched the sub over and the sound actually improved! Much more controlled now!
Any other mid recommendations? Those Seas listed above wont fit without a good thick spacer! I had some Dynaudio MW160 in the doors before, but it took a 3/4" spacer which made the door panels push out.

Ive used in my car
infinity kappa coaxil 6.5
PG xenon 6.5
PG ti elite 6.5
Dyn MW160
Kicker SSMB for three way
Seas w18nx

Seas > then all by a long shot

I also am using a Scan Speak 18w rev in the home now. Both have their ups and downs but I slightly prefer the w18nx.

Ive also heard a ton of other stuff, like BA Zs, Jl top line, some focals not the highest end stuff tho, and I cant remeber the rest but the Seas still IMO are number one.

Add the spacer you knwo you want to.

Fyi over a diyma that tweeter has been measured by Npdang and it beats everything thats a small compact. EVERYTHING, seas lotus reference, prs, rainbow plats, dyn, morel picc, scan 6000, and keep it going. That mid is also top 5 if I remember correctly in terms of BL performance. It can truly play from 63hz to 3.1khz which IMO is what you want out of a 6.5" speaker (even though id like it to handle 50hz

)

RATIFIED · Post by **RATIFIED** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:45 am

Have you ever tried the Elites active? I know the general discussion has been to use the passive because of all its built in EQing, etc, but I dont recall anyone saying how it changed going from passive to active. I know that passive Xover is a power hungry beast; WAY above the average passive.
This is the part I hate the most about Audio; deciding what to go with!

Post by **stipud** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:48 am

Using the Elites without the passive would almost be pointless. As you said, with the EQing and dynamic filtering built in, it would be impossible to reproduce the same effect on an active setup. The EQ is what makes that comp set sound good. If you want to go active, you would be just as well off with any other OEM driver. Why not run some Morel DIY drivers?

RATIFIED · Post by **RATIFIED** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:35 pm

The Seas from above get real good reviews, but I'm really looking into the new Pioneer Premiers and running those active. Leaning towards the Premiers as I can use the difference in price to get some deadener for the doors. Six one way and half a dozen the other.
On the other hand, the main reason I'm looking at other high/mid options is for more mid-bass. Might try making the AP enclosures and go from there. If nothing else, I will learn some about AP membranes.

Post by **bdubs767** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:52 pm

The reason active IMO is better then passive is how on gods earth can a passive xover work in every car? It simply CAN NOT. I just dont see how it can, thus allowing for the flexibility to change your xover points, phase, TA each speaker, level match each speaker will allow you to make your own network for your car. Honestly Im not really sure why every one is so about the ti elite set having to be run passive, it was one hell or a passive, but with time well spent on tunning I'm sure you could better results.

The reason active gets a bad rap is because of all the people using it not having a clue of what the hell to do. Trust me it will take a while to get it down but once you do....yummmmmmyyy

Also put the speakers in the Kicks PLD most important thing.

RATIFIED · Post by **RATIFIED** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:03 pm

I might still try them in active and see what happens. All I need to do is do a little rewiring and switch my deck over to pro mode; Pioneer Premier 860. Not looking for a full blown competition setup, but getting all I can get out of what I have.