so what is the ryval speaker line....

theburb · Post by **theburb** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:33 pm

i have been looking at the rsd 6x9's because i hear good things about the rsd line....but earlier i saw some sweet ass deals on the ryval speakers and i was wonder if anyone here could tell me just what hell they are....are they even pg builds and do they sound anything like the rsd's....or are they just some korean crunchford or rockwood type brands that are retagged with pg logo's....please if anyone could let me know that would be cool....thanks

Post by **AVICJR** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:54 pm

Ryval line= PG entry level equipment

RSd > Ryval

theburb · Post by **theburb** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:38 pm

but do they even make rsd anymore....isnt ryval the replacement.

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:43 pm

Ryval is not the replacement for RSD, it's the so-called replacement for Octane/Octane-R if I recall correctly.

Post by **AVICJR** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:47 pm

Both lines are still in production.

http://www.rodinaudio.com/pgMobile/index.php

theburb · Post by **theburb** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:59 pm

ok i guess the still make them but from what i see they spec the same....some anyone that has heard either brands tell me a little info

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:15 am

I don't know for a fact but if I could guess, I would say that Ryval takes into account a large portion of the engineering for the RSd line but the reason it's cheaper is probably materials and possibly build quality. I'd also guess the amps aren't quite as robust as the RSd but again, this is all guessing on my part. I've never owned, used or heard either amp.

Of course, one of the many PG and ex-PG employees here can (and should!) chime in and tell me I'm wrong if that's the case.

Post by **stipud** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:38 am

The Ryval/Octane amps are very "robust" as in they all make their rated power very consistently, and almost never break. They have a very solid and reliable design, similar to most common brand amplifiers, which isn't as geared towards SQ as the higher lines. This means no triple darlington or other SQ features, which would add to their complexity.

If you're one of those watts=watts "and you can't tell a difference" people, then the Ryval amps will probably be just as good. The RSDs and other upper lines definitely sound better IMHO (at least the A/B amps, however, I can't really tell the difference between the Class-D amps when playing bass).

I haven't heard the new Ryval speakers, but they are reported to be excellent performers.

theburb · Post by **theburb** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:49 am

im not worried about the amps....i came to terms long ago that pg will never be shit again in the car audio world....but im just trying to find some info on the ryval coax's and stuff...

Post by **stipud** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:35 am

theburb wrote:im not worried about the amps....i came to terms long ago that pg will never be shit again in the car audio world....but im just trying to find some info on the ryval coax's and stuff...

What do you base that on?

The amplifiers have not changed at all from their heyday. Hell, RSD is probably the closest amp to the MS series out of all of the high end lines since they came out. In fact, I think the RSD and Xenons are much better amplifiers than the Titaniums that everyone loves.

Even the Ryval amplifiers are an evolution of the Sapphire/QX/Octane line. All of the amplifiers are VERY similar to their predecessors... the only major difference between now and then is cosmetics.

The only difference I can think of is that there is no current replacement for the XS/Tantrum lineup. This is because they lowered prices on the Xenon/RSD series so much that it was no longer necessary to have the middle line.

So seriously, what's your beef with the amplifiers?

As for the speakers, the RSD line will be better across the board than the Ryval counterparts. The only exception here is the subwoofers, which aren't necessarily "worse", they just aim for higher bass output instead of low end like the RSDs. Some people even prefer the Ryval subs... it's a matter of taste.

Post by **Bfowler** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:44 am

^the Ryvals are also VERY efficant so if you are running a smaller amp, they might be a better choice then the RSD's

theburb · Post by **theburb** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:06 am

stipud wrote:
theburb wrote:im not worried about the amps....i came to terms long ago that pg will never be shit again in the car audio world....but im just trying to find some info on the ryval coax's and stuff...
What do you base that on?

The amplifiers have not changed at all from their heyday. Hell, RSD is probably the closest amp to the MS series out of all of the high end lines since they came out. In fact, I think the RSD and Xenons are much better amplifiers than the Titaniums that everyone loves.

Even the Ryval amplifiers are an evolution of the Sapphire/QX/Octane line. All of the amplifiers are VERY similar to their predecessors... the only major difference between now and then is cosmetics.

The only difference I can think of is that there is no current replacement for the XS/Tantrum lineup. This is because they lowered prices on the Xenon/RSD series so much that it was no longer necessary to have the middle line.

So seriously, what's your beef with the amplifiers?

As for the speakers, the RSD line will be better across the board than the Ryval counterparts. The only exception here is the subwoofers, which aren't necessarily "worse", they just aim for higher bass output instead of low end like the RSDs. Some people even prefer the Ryval subs... it's a matter of taste.

its nothing personal but what would you not base that on.....im die hard pg till i die....but we all know that no one will ever take the brand seriously again....pg should be on the same footing as zapco is now with those super amps they have....but sadly some poor choices and trendy trip ups sealed their fate....

Post by **Bfowler** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:29 am

i think everyone can agree that their marketing department is on par with biggest group of fuck-tards every assembled...but from a technological standpoint they are doing great. i am more then happy to snag their gear at prices below apples to apples competitors

Post by **stipud** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:33 am

Bfowler wrote:i think everyone can agree that their marketing department is on par with biggest group of fuck-tards every assembled...but from a technological standpoint they are doing great. i am more then happy to snag their gear at prices below apples to apples competitors

That's the point I'm trying to make. From a technological standpoint the new amplifiers are NOT inferior... they are every bit as good as their predecessors, if not better.

I am definitely NOT trying to support the "tuner inspired" look. There's a reason I still run Ti equipment when I know that the new stuff is better.

OldSchoolFool · Post by **OldSchoolFool** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:06 am

where to start? First off: PG will NEVER produce some Korean "your name here" crap. Period. ALL of our gear, including the new Ryval amps and speakers has been vetted by our engineers, most of whom built the stuff you refer to from "back in the day".

Not just legacy engineers, designs, etc but also new methods of QC and life cycle testing which make our old practices look insufficient and lame.

Can't speak for marketing. How do you market to people who look at Zapco or MS at the pinnacle of development? answer: you don't. Someone's gotta pay the bills, (hint: it's newb's not you old salts) As for how to market to new customers, well it's being worked on. Since when does marketing=kick-ass-products-from-back-in-the day? Marketing is BS designed to sell the most stuff ....and PG don't lie about power numbers or put anarcho-skater-moto-x up as lifestyle identification.

The Ryval 6x9s differ mostly in materials. Build quality is identical, made on the same production lines as RSd.

Check out the buck per watt value that Ryval amps offer, very powerful and stable designs, and they have darlington, just not triple darlington. Not sure if they look "tuner" but that argument is so 2003 anyway.

Post by **mr tibbs** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:07 am

Bfowler wrote:i think everyone can agree that their marketing department is on par with biggest group of fuck-tards every assembled...but from a technological standpoint they are doing great. i am more then happy to snag their gear at prices below apples to apples competitors

They have a marketing department??!!

theburb · Post by **theburb** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:34 am

OldSchoolFool wrote:where to start? First off: PG will NEVER produce some Korean "your name here" crap. Period. ALL of our gear, including the new Ryval amps and speakers has been vetted by our engineers, most of whom built the stuff you refer to from "back in the day".

Not just legacy engineers, designs, etc but also new methods of QC and life cycle testing which make our old practices look insufficient and lame.

ok so i take it you work for the machine and stuff....can you please shed some light on how the ryval speakers sound compared to the rsd counter parts....

OldSchoolFool · Post by **OldSchoolFool** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:49 am

Sound is subjective, I am sure other people here can shed more light on that particular quality. I happen to LOVE the Ryval subs, but for my own peculiar reasons involving musical taste. I know Gary Springgay has tested Ryval components vs. coax recently, he's a good source, should be out in PAS mag very soon if not currently.

Stewart · Post by **Stewart** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:29 am

Cool. OldSchoolFool works for "the Machine"

Best,

PG Night Janitoring Machine

theburb · Post by **theburb** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:30 am

OldSchoolFool wrote:Sound is subjective, I am sure other people here can shed more light on that particular quality. I happen to LOVE the Ryval subs, but for my own peculiar reasons involving musical taste. I know Gary Springgay has tested Ryval components vs. coax recently, he's a good source, should be out in PAS mag very soon if not currently.

i will take a guess or rather i hope he rated them pretty well..

but since u are looking at my thread, do you think you could please humor me and help me understand why it looks like pg just gave up all hopes for ever being on top again....is there any real reason that pg has nothing like the zapco c2k line....i know the engineering is there and of all the companies that are out now it would only be fitting for them to have something to throw into that arena....just wondering

Post by **stipud** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:40 am

theburb wrote:but since u are looking at my thread, do you think you could please humor me and help me understand why it looks like pg just gave up all hopes for ever being on top again....is there any real reason that pg has nothing like the zapco c2k line....i know the engineering is there and of all the companies that are out now it would only be fitting for them to have something to throw into that arena....just wondering

Maybe the question you should be answering for us is; what does the C2K line offer that the new PG lines don't?

OldSchoolFool · Post by **OldSchoolFool** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:48 am

The review was good.

As for image: it is unfortunate that the image you have is PG "gave up". The doors are still open, can't say that for all the competition out there, and things take time.

Every new product is a chance at greatness, not just flagship super-amps. Have patience. Ryval was originally intended to have a 150x4 in the amp line-up. (!!?!

) I am looking at one right now. For various business reasons it was dropped, not because PG "gave up".

Meanwhile, every shred of excellence mustered is utilized as best can be.
Like this for instance:

theburb · Post by **theburb** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:51 pm

stipud wrote: Maybe the question you should be answering for us is; what does the C2K line offer that the new PG lines don't?

out the box the zaps walk all over the pg line...i wont even get into comparing them because pg is not building their amps to compete in that world....if they did then maybe i would be able to throw something against the 4x,9x or 4kw....the only things that would even come close to that are the old ms builds....thats why i was just asking the question about if pg was going to try and take their spot back or something..

Post by **stipud** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:08 pm

theburb wrote:out the box the zaps walk all over the pg line...i wont even get into comparing them because pg is not building their amps to compete in that world....if they did then maybe i would be able to throw something against the 4x,9x or 4kw....the only things that would even come close to that are the old ms builds....thats why i was just asking the question about if pg was going to try and take their spot back or something..

That's the thing though... you have to tell us why they "walk all over PG", because currently all you are doing is speculating and providing your own personal opinion. Saying WHY is the most important part of an argument; otherwise you will never sway anyone to believe your side. You could say something subjective like "it sounds better to me", or something more objective like "it has more rail capacitance", but so far you have offered neither.

Let's go into the amps to compare a bit. Here's a 4.0X:

And a Xenon 200.4:

Can you point out anything inside of the amps that makes one better than the other? Do you understand enough about amplifier designs to be able to make these judgments?

I want you to convince me... what does the Zapco do that "walks all over PG", and why?

Stewart · Post by **Stewart** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:44 pm

Zapco is a great line. Here are the latest testing results I have between the RSD500.4 and the Zapco Z360.4:

Phoenix Gold RSD500.4
Signal to Noise (CEA): -87dBA
4 Ohm Stereo power (CEA): 85 Watts X 4
2 Ohm Stereo power (CEA): 135 Watts X 4
1 Ohm Stereo power (CEA): 180 Watts X 4

4 Ohm Bridged Power (CEA): 270 Watts X 2
2 Ohm Bridged Power (CEA): 365 Watts X 2

Zapco Z360.4
Signal to Noise (CEA): -72dBA
4 Ohm Stereo power (CEA): 58 Watts X 4
2 Ohm Stereo power (CEA): 95 Watts X 4
1 Ohm Stereo power (CEA): 79 Watts X 4

4 Ohm Bridged Power (CEA): 175 Watts X 2
2 Ohm Bridged Power (CEA): 155 Watts X 2

Both amps have nearly an equivalent MAP price (RSD is a little less).
RSD has Triple Darlington output topology, and dual differential input topology in the error amplifier section.

The Zapco is more on par performance wise with our RSD300.4, but the RSD300.4 costs significantly less than the Z360.4, and makes more power 2 Ohm Stereo and 2 Ohm bridged mono (they are within 2 or 3 watts at 4 Ohm Stereo and 4 Ohm bridged mono

Stewart the night janitor