Must have "new" PG amps?

[R-acer]

I am curious if Phoenix Gold will come out with the same level of product like the older stuff. Or do they have it now?

I really love the older series and have been working on collecting them every chance I get (or extra cash i have), but i just dont see the new stuff in the same light.

What do you think?

[Mackenzie]

Not going to happen. Ever... The market has changed to much.

[Rold Gold]

I can remember when PG started out in the back of his dads store. ALL hand built amps. If they were to start building like that again they'd be in the $3 per watt range again. When PG came out, it was TOP OF THE LINE and there wernt many in the same atmosphere. Fosgate and Orion were makin' some beasty amps and Soundstream popped up with an awesome line. I'm sure there are some others I left out but the point is this--- If yer willing to spend that kind of money and want something new then MAKE IT.
I'd love to have a custom heatsink made to fit 2 AmpNstein's and 2 Son's with a full plexi window and call it----------

"Redheaded Step AmpNstein"

[R-acer]

Not going to happen. Ever... The market has changed to much.

I was thinking this........... but then I look at a company like Zapco.... they make some seriously expensive stuff.... and they seem to be selling a crap load. I just dont see why PG cant do it too. They have a great rep for some of the highest quality out there. I think People would pay for it....even if they just had one high end series in addition to what they have now

[stipud]

Not going to happen. Ever... The market has changed to much.

I disagree, to an extent.

The new amps use the same circuit designs as the amps of yesteryear. The amps are still overbuilt, still offer more than rated power, and produce this power just as clean as before. The differences between them are pretty much inaudible.

The only major difference I can come up with, is that the MS and ZPA series had a more robust dual powersupply, which made it a dual-mono design in one chassis. All of the other models had shared powersupplies, unless I'm forgetting one.

So other than that, what has changed is cosmetics and where the amps are built. This was a necessary reaction to the market, swaying from high end audiophiles to consumers. Average consumers usually want bang for the buck, and have nothing to base their quality assumptions on other than appearance, so they will go for something cheap and flashy.

Species that don't evolve to match their surroundings will die. The same goes for companies as well. While most companies have sold out and brought us cookie cutter made in China amps, at least PG still engineers everything to the same standards as they used to. Heck, I could even argue that the RSD and Xenon series are a step UP over the previous Ti models, which were just detuned ZX amps. Xe.load was a very impressive amplifier design, and I'm very very sad that it didn't catch on.

So while PG doesn't have that raw audiophile lustre of their glory days, they still make a damn good amp at a damn good price... if you can get over the consumer bling. It's not all bad though... take a look at the Roadster 66 for example; I think that's the best looking LE amp that PG has made since the Outlaw and MS1000.

[stipud]

This old versus new amp design argument always reminds me of the Muscle cars vs. Modern cars debates.

There are always the people who will love the classic Muscle car design, and hate new cars -- "They don't build em like they used to!". It's simple, it's rock solid. These cars have been put on pedestals for years, and when everyone thinks back to their glory days, those were the cars they thought about. 300 horsepower of pure high displacement mayhem, stuck to the rear wheels for balls to the wall straight line performance.

Then we have the people who are crazy about new cars, and hate the old -- "Pushrods and oxcart suspension!". ECUs, turbos, all wheel drive, dynamic handling, crazy tuner Jap/Krautmobiles. And these cars have a lot to offer as well! 300 horsepower of refined turbocharged low displacement mayhem, stuck through all wheels for balls to the wall handling ability.

I guess my point is that I have always appreciated both designs. I love the old Muscle car designs, but I also love the new stuff as well. I can see the advantages of both, and I do not think any one is superior to the other. Are these new cars as memorable as the old ones? Probably not, because the Muscle cars existed during the glory days of racing. Now the car market has shifted to consumers and emissions and globalization. Does that make the new cars worse? Absolutely not! They have a lot to offer in their own right as well.

[MINI COOP]

The new amps use the same circuit designs as the amps of yesteryear. The amps are still overbuilt, still offer more than rated power, and produce this power just as clean as before. The differences between them are pretty much inaudible.

The only major difference I can come up with, is that the MS and ZPA series had a more robust dual powersupply, which made it a dual-mono design in one chassis. All of the other models had shared powersupplies, unless I'm forgetting one.

So other than that, what has changed is cosmetics and where the amps are built. This was a necessary reaction to the market, swaying from high end audiophiles to consumers. Average consumers usually want bang for the buck, and have nothing to base their quality assumptions on other than appearance, so they will go for something cheap and flashy.

Species that don't evolve to match their surroundings will die. The same goes for companies as well. While most companies have sold out and brought us cookie cutter made in China amps, at least PG still engineers everything to the same standards as they used to. Heck, I could even argue that the RSD and Xenon series are a step UP over the previous Ti models, which were just detuned ZX amps. Xe.load was a very impressive amplifier design, and I'm very very sad that it didn't catch on.

So while PG doesn't have that raw audiophile lustre of their glory days, they still make a damn good amp at a damn good price... if you can get over the consumer bling. It's not all bad though... take a look at the Roadster 66 for example; I think that's the best looking LE amp that PG has made since the Outlaw and MS1000.

but are the components not other ones?!
you have component a. you have component b, with the same specs, but it sound different...

You realy should check a new amp vs an older one and do some test then to check what is the difference between them.

but I also think that stupid (yes, from now on I just call him stupid, becaus his nickname is realy stupid ) has it right: the market has been chanched. most people don't want to give 2000 dollar to an install...

[stipud]

but are the components not other ones?!
you have component a. you have component b, with the same specs, but it sound different...

You realy should check a new amp vs an older one and do some test then to check what is the difference between them.

but I also think that stupid (yes, from now on I just call him stupid, becaus his nickname is realy stupid ) has it right: the market has been chanched. most people don't want to give 2000 dollar to an install...

The parts quality on the new amps is still very good. With the Xenon line they even went back to big ceramic block resistors, which hadn't been used since the ZPA series.

Here's a fantastic review contrasting a Xenon 100.2 to an M25 on a parts basis:
http://www.soundbuggy.com/Eric/Car%20Au ... index.html

And a shorter one about it's big brother, the Xenon 200.4:
http://www.soundbuggy.com/Eric/Car%20Au ... index.html

[martinkruit]

I own a Musical Fidelity A1

one off the greatest sounding amps i ever heard

Costed back then 1500 dollar, but sound better than a lot off 10000 dollar stuff)

There was really crappy stuff inside and somone tried to clone it with real high end components, but it did not sound as great as the original.

The point is, its not always the components that does the work.