Head Unit Help -cdx c90, alpine 9887, clarion 9255, z1

thedeal7235 · Post by **thedeal7235** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:59 pm

Okay guys I appreciate all your feedback, The clearest head unit ive ever owned or heard is the cdxc90, I see the alpine 9887b has the 24 bit burr brown d/a, but no copper chasis( nice price point though), The clarion has the 24bit burr brown as well, with copper chasis, and yes I may be able to purchase a denon(z1), but heres what i like about the cdx c90, it to me sems to have incredible staging, smooth separation, and smooth sub notes, so how can i figure out between these other 3 models??????? if i spend 1600 on a denon and it doesnt seem the same, i gues they hold theyre value pretty well, whereas with the clarion your talking anywheres from 6-800dollar price decrease from denon, and the alpine averages from 300-450 price point( which seems unreal for a burr brown d/a converter????!!!

Audiophiliac · Post by **Audiophiliac** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:14 pm

It would be nice to know which BB DAC each unit uses. There are several chips to choose from, and different levels of quality...and price to go with it. The Alpine may use a cheaper BB chip than the Clarion or the Denon....its hard to say without researching it a bit.

But, the most important thing is how it sounds to you. Sounds like your Sony makes you happy. Are you trying to do better? If so, the only way to know is to try it in your system against the Sony. Good luck.

thedeal7235 · Post by **thedeal7235** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:18 pm

Audiophiliac
thanks for the response-just curious, like with the clarion h/u its newer, I could buy another cdx c90, but i actually bought my cdx c90 back in 97 or 98- i know production shows 99-01, i think, but i know for a fact thats when i purchased back in northern va- just wish i could remember the name of the shop there, Roy, the owner, used to be one of the first pg dealers to try new amps etc., and i always trusted his recs.

ELmx479 · Post by **ELmx479** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:30 pm

I dont want to sound like a dumbass but what is the benefit of the copper chassis? I have the 9887 and I know it doesen't have it.

Post by **bdubs767** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:37 pm

DSP Deck > High end SQ deck (if you know what you are doing w/ the dsp, if not you'll fuck it worse than you coudl imagine)

Copper chassis does nothing besides noise rejection. If you don't have noise doesn't matter one bit. The new pioneer DEH-P800PRS will be around $400 w/ little more DSP than CDA-9887 (minus imprint) and the pioneer has a copper chassis too.

I would suggest the alpine cda-9887 w/ imprint for people who dont know how to tune well, based on reviews it seems to do a decent job.

When the cars moving down the road 30 mph can you actually hear the difference between decks? I highly doubt it....

thedeal7235 · Post by **thedeal7235** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:38 pm

i beleive less interference, engine noise from other electrical components in your vehicle; but I also believe a copper chasis means the maker of the unit was willing to spend more money for something as this, that may seem insignificant, kinda like, let me think of a good analogy............., like old skool pg amp boards being the 24k gold plated? someone help me out with a good analogy( usually im really good at this!?) Maybe like yeah you could use 18gauge speaker wire, but spend the dough on the 12 guage, or, yeah you could buy a pair of rcas for 10 dollars, but its your best interest, if u care about SQ, to spend the 80 bucks on better quality; seems insignificant, but will make a difference on sq

Tcguy85 · Post by **Tcguy85** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:50 pm

how about the Pioneer Premier 880PRS?

i love mine!

thedeal7235 · Post by **thedeal7235** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:53 pm

Actually I can hear the difference- I WAS AMAZED HOW much more the front stage came to life when I hooked up my old cdx c90, plus it seems like lots more headroom; I would say now i only turn the volume upto 1/3 running a ti 600.2 to components, and a rsd 1200.1 to rsdc 10s, before i had to turn it up to 3/4 volume, driving or sitting!!!!! Thats why I want to make sure that one of the other brands would be at least comparable???? Considering lots of guys here hve mentioned the z1 or 9255 would blow the c90 away

Audiophiliac · Post by **Audiophiliac** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:58 pm

My deck has more DSP than i can shake a stick at.....do I use it? No....Im too lazy. The Imprint (Audyssey) is the way to go IMHO. And it actually works well....at least based on my experience with Audyssey in home applications. That THX guy is a f'in genius.

tristan20 · Post by **tristan20** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:01 pm

if you have a chance to get a Z1 I suggest you grab it, if you dont like it just sell it, they never devalue only 1000 made

thedeal7235 · Post by **thedeal7235** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:06 pm

im sure for the costs i will luv it, more importantly, anticipating the sq difference from c90---

Post by **bdubs767** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:27 pm

thedeal7235 wrote:i beleive less interference, engine noise from other electrical components in your vehicle

Yes, but if you can't hear any of that from a $100 dollar head unit does it matter? NO.

thedeal7235 wrote:but I also believe a copper chasis means the maker of the unit was willing to spend more money for something as this, that may seem insignificant, kinda like, let me think of a good analogy.............

Like a lambo...people buy it buy never will use the engine. Fucking idiots IMO. If you have no noise a copper chassis won't due jack shit other than boast your ego about your install, and play tricks on your mind making you think it sounds better.

thedeal7235 wrote:like old skool pg amp boards being the 24k gold plated? someone help me out with a good analogy

Cool, I four of those amps sitting under my bed and Im using the xenons because they are far more pratical.

thedeal7235 wrote: Maybe like yeah you could use 18gauge speaker wire, but spend the dough on the 12 guage

That's stupid for anything in a car unless it's huge HUGE spl install 16 gauge is suitable for just about everything. There is no way the wire will affect SQ in a car EVER. In the home maybe but that is simply due to resistance.

thedeal7235 wrote: yeah you could buy a pair of rcas for 10 dollars, but its your best interest, if u care about SQ, to spend the 80 bucks on better quality; seems insignificant, but will make a difference on sq

If you spend $80 on rca's you should be thrown off a roof.

thedeal7235 · Post by **thedeal7235** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:36 pm

ok bdubs 767 , bad analogy, do me a favor, next time your in orlando, please come by, i will switch out the cdx 90 to any head unit, u choose, and if u tell me u cant hear the difference then ill eat the cdx c90!!!!! Copper chasis and all- all i have to say is that i dont even think the type of speakers matter, just a really nice clean sq head unit, clean amps, with line drivers, ofcourse, and thats a huge difference anyday, just my opinion

Post by **bdubs767** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:41 pm

thedeal7235 wrote:ok bdubs 767 , bad analogy, do me a favor, next time your in orlando, please come by, i will switch out the cdx 90 to any head unit, u choose, and if u tell me u cant hear the difference then ill eat the cdx c90!!!!! Copper chasis and all- all i have to say is that i dont even think the type of speakers matter, just a really nice clean sq head unit, clean amps, with line drivers, ofcourse, and thats a huge difference anyday, just my opinion

A.) Simple switch doesnt prove crap, it has to be 100% blind A/B test with a control and deception.

B.) I bet you can hear a slight difference in the head units sitting in the car w/o it moving and no fans on. Once that car starts rolling NO WAY.

C.)Trust me I used to be like you

I've gone through more high end gear than any one can shake a stick at. Just ask stipud, bfowler, vw337, dedlyjedly, francious, and doc. They have all been around from my progression from bass head to like everyone else here, to SQ nut, now to not denying all the BS vodooo that goes along w/ SQ.

thedeal7235 · Post by **thedeal7235** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:49 pm

i hear u , and i dont want a pissing match, just curious if the clarion or alpine, at lower price range, may be comprable with the old c90, IT REALLY ( the c90) makes a huge clarity and separation difference, than any other new head units ive purchased, even with the line drivers, i REALLY dont even need to turn the volume up more than 1/3rd anymore,im hearing notes from areas i forgot were even in the cd, and the line drivers and gains are at same level since switching in my old c90( c90 screen is hard to see in the daylight, thats why im considering a new h/u that would have good quality burr brown d/a

tipracer · Post by **tipracer** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:12 am

bdubs, i've never disagreed with any of your other posts but i have to take exception to your post regarding speaker wire not making a difference. One of the biggest differences i've ever heard was scrapping the wire that was in my previous install(some thick monster stuff with shielding) to some 4 conductor kimber kable, it opened up the soundstage unbelievably, maybe i just had a bad run of wire with the monster stuff but from that point on its all i've ever used, i really works IMO.

Post by **bdubs767** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:43 am

tipracer wrote:bdubs, i've never disagreed with any of your other posts but i have to take exception to your post regarding speaker wire not making a difference. One of the biggest differences i've ever heard was scrapping the wire that was in my previous install (some thick monster stuff with shielding) to some 4 conductor kimber kable, it opened up the soundstage unbelievably, maybe i just had a bad run of wire with the monster stuff but from that point on its all i've ever used, i really works IMO.

How? Can you please explain the physics of this to me? There is NO FREAKING WAY one wire is better than the other unless it is silver vs. copper or bigger sized copper vs. a smaller size.

Both of the examples of I gave, deal with resistance. For example silver has less resistance than copper. So you can get away w/ a smaller piece of silver than copper, but if you increased the size of the copper to match up w/ the silver, no difference.

You may be able to argue the shitty high end cable adds something to music because of resistors or what ever the company decides to throw in there. This is simply retarded; IT IS ALTERING THE ORGINAL SIGNAL. I don’t want to make music..... Listen to it how the artist intended it to be listened to.

Also did you blind A/B test the wire? With control and some level of deception to trick yourself? I am willing to say no....your mind can play so many tricks on you, I take any "audiophile statement" as 100% Bull shit unless they have used a solid test w/ the scientific method.

Post by **stipud** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:54 am

http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/03/audi ... cable-and/
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/sh ... stcount=28

I have noticed substantial difference when changing my audio cables, but I was going from 15 year old twisted together 18 gauge, up to biwired 12 gauge. It made a substantial difference, especially in quantity of bass and smoothness of treble. No A/B scientific test was done.. the difference was so obvious, but that's also because of how completely useless my old wires were. I would have far more difficulty believing a properly sized wire of any one brand sounds better than another.

tristan20 · Post by **tristan20** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:03 am

Actually I can tell you from my own experience with 3 cables that I currently own.

Kimber Kable 4TC, Kimber Kable 8TC and Nordost Flatline Gold

Ok first off the 4TC seemed to have less bass than the 8TC, the Nordost seemed in between the 4TC and 8TC. The 8TC was the best sounding overall. The 4TC is good but seemed to take away from the lower end bass.

All cables are 8 feet long.

Equipment used Cambridge 840C, Musical Fidelity Nuvista M3 Super Integrated amp, Exact Power EP15A power conditioner, Kimber Kable Hero interconnects. Dali Helicon 400 speakers

I did a blind test with my fiance also and she noticed the same (Shes not an audiophile and she told me I am nuts to think wires are worth their price)

Conclusion, the difference isnt all that much on certain types of music. So it really depends on the type of music you listen to and also the room. Most importantly the ears of the listener.

And I agree price does not justify the differences you can hear between cable A and cable B

tipracer · Post by **tipracer** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:05 pm

because of the nature of the beast you are right, there was no way for me to have done an a/b blind test, but being that the only thing that I ever changed at that point was the speaker wire...Many people asked what I had changed and nobody really belived me that it was only the wire.
It was the old school Kimber 4tc(blue and black), there were no funky connectors or anything. At the time it was connecting a bridged mq430(that got its signal from an eq215ix) to some focal mids and the tiny focal tweet thru a really old focal passive, i replaced all the inteconnecting wire at the same time. It really sounded better no bs. I didnt notice any loss of bass perhaps because of the active x-over...
but sorry back on topic, if you can buy the z-1, you will never regret it!

thedeal7235 · Post by **thedeal7235** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:18 pm

Thanx for all replies( wasnt trying to start a civil war, just was hoping someone would say, oh yeah i had a cdx c90, and switched to a z1 or clarion and it was even better-ill just trial and error it-Thanx all

tristan20 · Post by **tristan20** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:26 pm

I had a c90, quite a few acutally. I can tell you they are great sounding decks, but the face really really sucks, I also hated the cheap rubbery volume knob. Anyway they are great sounding decks, but the Z1 really is that much more superior in highs. I have yet to find a car deck that is better at highs without any equalization or secondary processing

thedeal7235 · Post by **thedeal7235** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:52 pm

THANK YOU Tristan!!!!!!!!!!!!!