New to me car advice needed

Post by **mr tibbs** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:00 pm

Well, I'm getting the bug for a new (used) vehicle and wanted some opinions. First of all I will not be buying for about 4-5 months so I have some time to do some research. I had my heart set on a Lexus IS300, but with the way fuel prices are going up here in the land of the free I just can not justify this car for a daily driver. It has all of the power I could ever want (or mod out of it), but it does not even get 20 miles to the gallon. I'm heart broken over this, but I just need to get over it and move on.

So, being the Toyota fan I am I started to look around in the family. It looks like the Matrix is a good starting point. The '05 is running a 4 cylinder motor with 170 horse power and 30+ miles to the gallon in the XRS model. It also has a 6 speed manual trans and is pretty fun to drive! I went and test drove one last night for shits and giggles and it's really a pretty fun car to throw around on the highway. I'm not really thrilled with the looks, but it does have a nice cargo area in the back for a nice system.

Here is a link to the one I test drove last night. It really was fun to drive, the damn thing does not red line until about 8200 rpm and has a little kick in the pants around 6200 rpm. It's crazy trying to red line the damn thing, I think I was doing about 80 mph in third gear and still had room on the tach!

So, what do you guys think about the Matrix XRS and what do you think will compare to it hp and gas mileage wise?? I'm open to suggestions on different vehicles to take a look at. Here are a few parameters:

1) It must get 30+ miles to the gallon
2) It must have 4 doors, I need to haul people around now.

3) I would prefer a manual trans
4) I would prefer at least the 170 hp that the Matrix has
5) It must be fun to drive! I'm tired of having a gutless vehicle that is boring.
6) No domestic vehicles. This is a personal preference and I will not buy another domestic vehicle.

Let me know what you guys think!

Post by **mr tibbs** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:04 pm

Interesting side not on the Matrix, the engine is damn near bullet proof! Lotus is now buying them from Toyota and using them in the Elise and Elise SC. They have thrown a supercharger on it and are getting around 220 hp out of it. Not too shabby for a little 4 banger!!

Lotus USA website

Audiophiliac · Post by **Audiophiliac** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:29 pm

Get a 2003+ (I forget when they switched motors) diesel Jetta wagon or 4 dr. Golf! Dont let the low HP numbers fool you....torque is where its at....and these have gobs of torque. And you can turn up those PD motors with a simple chip or tuning box and a set of injectors and get huge improvements. Plus you can get 45 mpg or more!

ydnap · Post by **ydnap** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:31 am

wait until next year and get the new Genesis Coupe

Ahsmo · Post by **Ahsmo** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:17 am

Audiophiliac wrote:Get a 2003+ (I forget when they switched motors) diesel Jetta wagon or 4 dr. Golf! Dont let the low HP numbers fool you....torque is where its at....and these have gobs of torque. And you can turn up those PD motors with a simple chip or tuning box and a set of injectors and get huge improvements. Plus you can get 45 mpg or more!

+1 on the turbo diesel. My mother has a passat station wagon with the diesel in it. Really nice car and the gas milage is pretty darn nice.

Post by **mr tibbs** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:48 am

Have you guys seen the price of diesel lately??!!

That and I'm afraid that a VW/Audi is out for me as well. Me parents have had many through out the years, but their last one was an absolute piece of crap. It was and 2000 Audi A6 2.7T. It was an absolute screamer, but you also could not get 20 miles away from the dealership because it always needed work. It had that nice 50K mile warranty, but what good is that if the damn vehicle never leaves the mechanic?? Since then all of us have been pretty weary about the reliability of VW/Audi's.

I still might go check out a Golf, but you guys are going to have to convince me they are reliable.

Keep the suggestions coming guys!

Also, I forgot to add that I would like to keep the price to $15K max.

Ahsmo · Post by **Ahsmo** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:24 am

I know two people who have the TDI and that have had no problems to speak of.

Calculate the cost to drive the car per mile on diesel verus gas(at the respective mpg ratings you are looking at), the gap is wide enough to warrant the price of diesel

Post by **Francious70** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:28 am

Ahsmo wrote:
Audiophiliac wrote:Get a 2003+ (I forget when they switched motors) diesel Jetta wagon or 4 dr. Golf! Dont let the low HP numbers fool you....torque is where its at....and these have gobs of torque. And you can turn up those PD motors with a simple chip or tuning box and a set of injectors and get huge improvements. Plus you can get 45 mpg or more!
+1 on the turbo diesel. My mother has a passat station wagon with the diesel in it. Really nice car and the gas milage is pretty darn nice.

+2 on the turbo diesel. WAY more torque, and damn good gas mileage to boot

ydnap · Post by **ydnap** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:39 am

Ahsmo · Post by **Ahsmo** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:48 am

Well I am on watch and very bored so:

National average for gas is $3.03/gal

Figure your gas milage for your small 4 banger is about 30 mpg

$3.03/gal X 1 gal/ 30 miles = $.101 per mile

National average for diesel is $3.38/gal

Figure your typical VW TDI engine gets about 45 mpg

$3.38/gal X Gal/45 miles = $.075 per mile

So if you figure that you keep your cars for about 20K miles the difference in cost per mile in terms of fuel is as follows:

$.101 per mile x 20,000 miles = $2020 in gas

$.075 per mile x 20,000 miles = $1500 in diesel

$520 dollars difference is worth it. That $520 could be saved or put into a chip which would lead to more horse power and better gas milage if you can keep your foot off the floor

Post by **mr tibbs** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:14 pm

So, an '03 or newer Turbo Diesel Golf huh? Alrighty, I'll do some research and try to go test drive one. Are they fun to drive? How are they price wise? Any more suggestions?

Post by **Bfowler** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:42 pm

I'm a big fan of the mazda 3 (makes a 5 door and 4 door)

it has 10 less Horsepower then the toyota...but 25 ftlbs more tourqe.

the subaru legacy GT 2.5 is nice to, but hard to find in manual becasue noone ever gets rid of them

Post by **Bfowler** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:54 pm

hears a car and driver comparison article from a few years ago that has the toyota you mentioned in the runnning

the mazda mp3 won however

Post by **mr tibbs** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:57 pm

Bfowler wrote:hears a car and driver comparison article from a few years ago that has the toyota you mentioned in the runnning

the mazda mp3 won however

Ummm, forget something???

Post by **Bfowler** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:58 pm

mr tibbs wrote:
Bfowler wrote:hears a car and driver comparison article from a few years ago that has the toyota you mentioned in the runnning

the mazda mp3 won however
Ummm, forget something???

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/com ... t/(page)/1

Post by **Francious70** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:00 pm

My brother has an '08 Lancer (non-evo) that is fun as hell to drive. Pretty damn quick too.

Post by **mr tibbs** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:09 pm

Nice read Fowler! I'm trying to decide how close Mazda is to Ford, I can not drive a Ford.........E V A R!!!

Post by **mr tibbs** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:11 pm

Francious70 wrote:My brother has an '08 Lancer (non-evo) that is fun as hell to drive. Pretty damn quick too.

I'll look into that, but something tells me that it breaks my gas mileage and price point.

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:37 pm

mr tibbs wrote:Nice read Fowler! I'm trying to decide how close Mazda is to Ford, I can not drive a Ford.........E V A R!!!

FORD PROBE!!!!!! IT'S HALF MAZDA, I SWEAR!

Post by **Bfowler** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:14 pm

the mazda 3 is nothing like a ford! (actually it borrows the focuses suspoension, which is actually damn good. )

ford owns 1/2 of mazda and OEM's its trucks and SUV's

the 3/rx/mx5 are mazda design. ford borrows parts of them for many of their vehicles

Post by **mr tibbs** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:16 pm

I can't remember what year Ford bought Mazda, but ever since then Mazda has been invisible in my eyes. Seriously, I just can't stand anything Ford. It's just a personal opinion so everyone back off!! Hosehead, I'm looking in your direction!

Post by **Bfowler** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:18 pm

same here...go drive a 3 and use your own judgment

Post by **mr tibbs** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:19 pm

Bfowler wrote:the mazda 3 is nothing like a ford! (actually it borrows the focuses suspoension, which is actually damn good. )

ford owns 1/2 of mazda and OEM's its trucks and SUV's

the 3/rx/mx5 are mazda design. ford borrows parts of them for many of their vehicles

What motor does it have in it? How is the fit and finish? Maybe I'll have to go check one out.

BTW, that article you posted was from '03, Toyota did make some small changes in '04 and '05, but I'm sure the results would have been about the same. It was still nice to get another opinion on it.

Post by **Bfowler** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:28 pm

the fit and finsih is excelent. my freind has the "nice" modle with leather, heated seats etc....really a very nice car.

found a couple larger pics

ydnap · Post by **ydnap** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:43 pm

Its a shame the US doesnt have the new TD focus. The UK ones are awesome.