I am thinking about doing a RSD10 in my driver...

dgoodhue · Post by **dgoodhue** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:33 pm

I was going to just do seperates & coax's in the beater, but I think I am going to do a sub and ditch the rear speakers. It all started with the purchase of a mint M25 and it go me thinking.

I also could use some practice with fiberglass, since I have to do air box, radiator shroud, door panel pods in fiberglass for my truck.

I was going to use one of my 8's but some space isn't much of an issue. So I will need another amp & RSD 10, and perhaps some guidance. I was thinking about try to find another M25 or M50, would a M25 push a RSD10 or should really go for a M50. I would prefer not to be require to large of a guage of wire for my amps.

dgoodhue · Post by **dgoodhue** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:36 pm

Oh yeah it a 2002 Chevy Prim, which is a rebadged Totota Corolla...

Post by **Bfowler** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:40 pm

the m25 will work, but that sub will take as much power as you can give it.

i guess you can try it, and if you dont like it, you can step up to a m50

Post by **stipud** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:44 pm

Hmmm... I would go with the M50. After hearing an Xmax 10 (uber efficient) off of the rear of an M44 (about 50 watts shy of M25 bridged output)... the bass is present, but it definitely doesn't pound like it could. The difference between a sub running bridged on the rears of that amp compared to mine (Ti500.4 - 250 watts) is pretty huge.

If you don't want any "badonkadonk" (i.e. a system that plays flat and blends perfectly, with no obvious bass), then the M25 will probably be sufficient.

Post by **Francious70** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:46 pm

If you're not getting enough omph from the sub, build a bigger box, go ported, or give it more powah.

Post by **Bfowler** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:48 pm

dont bigger boxes offer flatter responses...while smaller boxes provide more output? (sealed)

dgoodhue · Post by **dgoodhue** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:58 pm

I will get some pictures this week end of my trunk so I can give you guys my ideas of what I am thinking of.

I could always screw around with the M50 section of my outlaw, to see what I like, once I have a RSD10 in my hands. Its pretty damn cold out up northeast so it will take a while get a box done. The other problem is that finding nice M25 or M50 to match my other one is a hit or miss on ebay, so I will have to jump if I find one I like or I could always find another ZX450/475/500 or pair of ZX250/350/400's and sell off my M25.

Post by **Francious70** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:12 pm

Bfowler wrote:dont bigger boxes offer flatter responses...while smaller boxes provide more output? (sealed)

Bigger box = less aeronautical resistance AKA lowering the mechanical compliance, making less power give more output.

Post by **Bfowler** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:19 pm

why do the SPL reccomendations in manuals show a smaller box size?

Post by **Francious70** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:24 pm

I'm not quite sure as I've seen that countless times as well. I'm assuming it's because the smaller the box, the more power you can feed each driver without reaching mechanical limits. But you have to be careful with this otherwise you'll melt or arc-weld the voicecoil.

The objective I shoot for with every box I build is to have the sub reach X-max with the power I have available.

Post by **Bfowler** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:35 pm

[quote="Francious70"]I I'm assuming it's because the smaller the box, the more power you can feed each driver without reaching mechanical limits.

that sounds right....good call

what are you using to find out how much power it will take to make the sub reach xmax in a given box? is that a feature in bassbox?

Post by **stipud** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:47 pm

Yep, bassbox can do it. Just switch over to the CD graph tab (cone displacement). You'll see how the excursion of the subwoofer rises as the frequency drops down. Changing the power will also increase the excursion.

I will be using this for my Tang Band 6x9 woofers. Assuming 300 watts, they would hit Xmech anywhere below ~80hz, however putting it in a 0.35cuft enclosure kept the excursion of the woofer low enough that it could play safely to 20Hz and below.

This is just another concern to think about when you design a box for a speaker. Add that to other important things like Qtc, and if you can get them all balanced out, you will have a setup that sounds good.

Post by **Francious70** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:51 pm

Bassbox, WinISD, but mainly I use LSPCad. It's much more accurate, and you can fine tune everything better with it.

Post by **Bfowler** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:56 pm

dude, maybe we should make a bassbox tutorial....i am hopless with it.

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:37 pm

I could always swap my Xmax 10 for Tom's RSD10 and power it off my M44 bridged and let you know if the M25's few more watts makes that thing pound or blend.

Only for testing of course...

Post by **Francious70** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:40 pm

Bfowler wrote:dude, maybe we should make a bassbox tutorial....i am hopless with it.

Don't try LSPCad then, you'd be fucked. BB Pro is pretty simple tho, you load your driver (if it came pre-loaded), you create your box, you adjust your box.

What are you having trouble with, I know BB Pro pretty well as I've used it to design hundreds of boxes.

dgoodhue · Post by **dgoodhue** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:29 am

I am thinking about putting the 10" in one the recessed sides of the truck. FIberglassing it to match the inner countour of the rear quarter and useing a a flat of MDF board to finish it off. How am I going mount the sub enclosure to the car, I obvious can do the bottom to the trunk, but that doesn't seem like enough.

I originally was going to put the other two amps in the opposite side in matching flush mount panel but they don't appear as thought they will fit.

I obvious could put them many places, but I want them recessed to keep them from getting damaged and I used my trunk quite a bit (ie I fill it up to take lots trip with my wife & dogs) The nice thing about those recessed sections is really can't much in those places. My intial instinct I could do a false floor. I also noticed PG doesn't recommend vetical mounting, so I be thinging about plexiglass and fans.

Post by **stipud** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:57 am

Vertical mounting shouldn't be a problem unless you go low impedance.

Post by **AVICJR** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:59 am

You could try having your sub fire away from the cabin in a long shallow box and mount the amps facing the cabin. If your rear seats fold down, then you see the amps. And when you open the trunk the sub box will be so far back and shallow enough to have room in front of it be usable.

I don't know just a thought after looking at the trunk.

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:40 am

I haven't had a single heat issue with my M44 and it's mounted vertically... in fact, it's mounted at 80 degrees or so because my rear seats aren't completely vertical. And yes, I'm using all the channels and bridging one of them.

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:58 pm

Oh that was fun! Just spent some time out in the truck tuning what little stereo I have with my ears and the help of ms. jane...

I can most definitely say that your M25 will produce enough power bridged for a 10" sub like my Xmax... No problem. But not many sub are like my Xmax so I have limited experience in that department at this moment.

I just went out to my truck and played with my channel gains a bit on my M44 and I discovered that I was running them suspiciously low. Tom, I'm looking at you, you gain NAZI!

Yes, I completely understand not clipping the amp. I know that just crankin' the gains is bad practice... I'm not that noob. I very gently raised them to where I couldn't hear any clipping but still got good volume and control.

I listened pretty hard and it wasn't clipping and my 10" Xmax was pounding tightly AND holding some lower notes pretty well through a very wide range of music from Stars to Dr. Dre to Poison the Well to South Pacific among them. It's not a FUCK YOU IN THE FACE loud though, but a nice blend with decent oomphf. I'm sure if I tried Tom's RSd 10" on this power it would hit hard and hold the low stuff much better than my Xmax. Whether the punch that I love so much with this Xmax would still be as strong on the RSd, I don't know.

And no, I don't have the gains cranked or anything, but I'm actually using them now

To make a comparison I'm doing 105W with the bridged channel on my M44, the M25 will do 140W (according to official stats of course). Not significantly more because of the logarithmic nature of decibels but still something.

To summarize:

I'd have nothing to fear with that M25 and an RSd 10" unless you NEED real big bass that a 10" on 140W can't really do.

<junk>
I love my M44 soooooooooo much. You guys fucking spoiled me. Spoiled me rotten!
</junk>

Post by **Bfowler** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:34 am

and for the rediculous price you got it for....

it dont get much better