ZX vs Ti

flogger11 · Post by **flogger11** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:52 pm

Ok guys, enlighten me. What are the differences between the ZX and Ti series? Also, can you tell me what the upgrades were from the ZX-450 to the ZX-450 v2? Thanks everybody! Mike

joyride · Post by **joyride** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:13 am

I am just trying to regurgitate some knowledge here, so dont take it 100% correct. I beleiev that the power section on the ti's was taken down a bit, and claims of less headroom have been made when compared to the ZX line. I think that is the only diference.

As for the 450v.2, I believe it was just a fan upgrade and the windows on the sides were attached in a different way (i think they went from glue to screws).

Post by **Jacampb2** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:59 am

I don't know any of this for sure, but here is what I have seen. It appears that the Ti lines were the first PG amps to go to primarily surface mount components (SMD) and they made a big deal out of this, although nearly every electronic device in early 2k started switching to SMD because it allows higher board density, and easier manufacture practices.

The Ti's also got a new xover design, which was intended to be easir to setup, and less confusing.

Some Ti models got a subsonic filter, which I believe was a first for any of the PG line.

Overall their power ratings are the same as the similar Zx models, but their power supplies are indeed different, at least in their over current detection. I don't know if rail voltage was reduced as mentioned above... The overcurrent time threshold went from I believe 75 ms on the ZX amps to 50 ms on the Ti's. The Zx had to see an overcurrent for about 75 ms before it switched to higher voltage to reduce output current. The Ti's do it in 50 ms, which might explain the mention of less headroom. As during normal operating conditions, it is just the dynamic peaks which may cause the output to go overcurrent.

What I would really like to know, is WTF is the difference between the Zx600Ti and the Ti600.2. I have one of each in my shop both with identical main boards and different cases (used, so cases could have been swapped)...

Later,
Jason

Post by **smgreen20** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:48 am

Jacampb2 wrote: What I would really like to know, is WTF is the difference between the Zx600Ti and the Ti600.2. I have one of each in my shop both with identical main boards and different cases (used, so cases could have been swapped)...

Later,
Jason

For 1, the year it was made
2??????

Post by **stipud** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:22 am

Jacampb2 wrote: What I would really like to know, is WTF is the difference between the Zx600Ti and the Ti600.2. I have one of each in my shop both with identical main boards and different cases (used, so cases could have been swapped)...

Later,
Jason

Just a new naming scheme pretty much

The Ti/ZXti series rolled back the rail voltages a bit, compared to the equivalent ZX amp, in order to improve reliability. I remember Doc Fosgate measured his ZX450 to produce ~115x4.

flogger11 · Post by **flogger11** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:35 am

stipud wrote:
Jacampb2 wrote: What I would really like to know, is WTF is the difference between the Zx600Ti and the Ti600.2. I have one of each in my shop both with identical main boards and different cases (used, so cases could have been swapped)...

Later,
Jason
Just a new naming scheme pretty much

The Ti/ZXti series rolled back the rail voltages a bit, compared to the equivalent ZX amp, in order to improve reliability. I remember Doc Fosgate measured his ZX450 to produce ~115x4.

into a stereo 4 ohm load???

flogger11 · Post by **flogger11** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:36 am

smgreen20 wrote:
Jacampb2 wrote: What I would really like to know, is WTF is the difference between the Zx600Ti and the Ti600.2. I have one of each in my shop both with identical main boards and different cases (used, so cases could have been swapped)...

Later,
Jason
For 1, the year it was made
2??????

Duh. Sheesh.

Post by **stipud** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:53 am

flogger11 wrote:into a stereo 4 ohm load???

Yessir.

flogger11 · Post by **flogger11** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:06 pm

No wonder that thing humps so hard on my sub, I'm sure in the real world it is getting 400+ watts based on the 115 watt rms per channel figure... NICE! I wonder what the ZX-350 is actually putting out into a bridged two ohm load? I am sure well over 500 real world watts! I cant wait to get that amp!

Post by **Jacampb2** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:33 pm

Rail voltage is not the equivalent of output voltage. Although, within limits, higher rail voltage will yield higher power output.

Later,
Jason

dgoodhue · Post by **dgoodhue** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:47 am

Jacampb2 wrote:What I would really like to know, is WTF is the difference between the Zx600Ti and the Ti600.2. I have one of each in my shop both with identical main boards and different cases (used, so cases could have been swapped)...

ZXti and TI are the same, just a naming convention. The differences are between the ZX and ZXti Series

dwnrodeo · Post by **dwnrodeo** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:02 am

I believe there is a topic already in regards to this subject. I tried searching it,
but for some reason I can't find anything. (My search is not working properly).

The ZX line has more headroom, and the ZXti/Ti line has less headroom but is more reliable.

flogger11 · Post by **flogger11** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:24 am

More reliable eh? 10 years of service from my ZX-450 without a hitch, cant get much better than that, I'll take the headroom thank you! LOL!

Post by **Jacampb2** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:54 am

flogger11 wrote:More reliable eh? 10 years of service from my ZX-450 without a hitch, cant get much better than that, I'll take the headroom thank you! LOL!

I agree. I ran ZX series amps for years before I took a car audio sabbatical... I ran them really hard, a long ways outside of their design expectations, and I never had one fail. The only reason any of them went back to PG was to have the free V2 upgrade.

Since getting back into the scene, and collecting as much O/S PG gear as I can afford, I have seen a lot more broken later model amps than ZX or ZPA amps. In theory, lower rail voltage, and quicker current limiting response will improve reliability, but the problems come when people try to run them the same way the ZX amps could run. Lower rail voltage means the output transistors are more withing safe operating limits, however, when people try to run low impedance loads, this means the power supply has to produce even more current than it did at the higher voltage. Current causes heat, and heat kills.

If people ran all amps within their rated capaticy, they would likely experience near zero failure rate. Peeps expect more out of PG's line though, because they always could take it in the past. It is likely that they still can, however, speaker design has changed radically since the ZX days as well. It is dirt simple to find a dual 2ohm sub, or, as KHpower has shown us, even some quad 2 ohm subs. You never saw anything like that 10 years ago. You could put a lot of subs on a ZX amp and never come close to the danger zone you would be in with just a pair of D2 subs in parallel...

The sub manufactures have kind of put the fucks to the amp manufacturers. You can get subs with lower, and lower impedances, but amplifiers have not changed that much in the same years. They may never, asking an amp to drive a .5 ohm load, is basically asking it to shove 40 amps or more (possibly a lot more) into a dead short. I recently bought 4 O/S CV d2 stroker BNIB for an upcoming project, and now I am struggling to decide how to drive them. W/ a power handling capability of close to 2KW each and dual 2 ohm coils, you are very limited on amplifier choices. I would rather not go with 4 single amps at 1 ohm each, but it looks like that is the road I am going to have to take.

enough rant. Back to work guys, back to work!

Later,
Jason