10" vs 12" sub problem

finkle636 · Post by **finkle636** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:59 am

I've had nothing but trouble with a RSDc 10" sub since i installed it. Its a 4ohm DVC set up to a 2ohm load for my RSD600.1 amp.

I made THREE different boxes for it and it still didn't sound right. It kicked like hell but didnt really rumble at all, it had no depth or authority. I finally gave up and accepted that it must be the acoustics of the car but the other day i thought, right last try, i'll buy a premade box to see it its any different.

Box arrived, it was still the same, kicks like hell but now depth to the rumble (Xover set at 150 hz, no bass boost, subsonic filter set to 25ish.

I then thought, just for arguments sake i'll throw in my single 12" Octane R 250wrms sub in its pre made box and give it a try. No settings were changed at all.

I turned the LPL down and fired her up. Instantly it sounded 100% right, kicks and rumbles and thats without hardly any power going to it?

WTF is going on?, how can a 10" 600w RMS sub be so much different from a old battered 250w RMS 12" sub?

The 10" is not going back in, it is absolutely dreadful in comparison.

Anyone got any ideas why there is so much difference?

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:09 pm

What size where the boxes you made for the RSdC?

Edit: Recommended SQ sealed total volume is .472 cu feet (0.382 + .090).

Post by **Rold Gold** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:09 pm

You have to be doing something wrong....... What, I don't know....but something......

Why is the xo set at 150hz? It's a sub not a mid.......I've never ran a sub over 100hz myself and I thought it sounded better at 60hz. I know the manual says it'll run the 29-300hz range but still.........JMO

Post by **Bfowler** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:39 pm

do you have the coils wired opposing eachother maybe?

i really dont know what to say. its hard to diagnose without being there...but something certainly sounds VERY wrong

finkle636 · Post by **finkle636** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:46 pm

Let me stress that it kicks very HARD but the rumble is very shallow on the 10" and it doesnt sound right.

The brand new 10" prefab box is 1 cubic foot, all my others varied from far to small, to small, to as PG spec.

All throughout this has been my problem, i put the Octane R 12" in and bang, correct sound instantly. No messing , No readjusting anything.

I have it wired

AMP + to + VC1 to + VC2
AMP - to - VC1 to - VC2

Now i'm thinking that the VC's (voice coils) are marked up wrong, maybe?

Can i just swap the polarity on the VC2 and see what happens?

Post by **Bfowler** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:48 pm

i would try running 1 VC at a time and see if one sound off.

finkle636 · Post by **finkle636** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:50 pm

I would like to figure it out, so i will try that.

I thought a 10" would sound 95% the same but a lesser volume when compared to a 12".

Is that a good estimate?

Post by **Bfowler** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:52 pm

no. the 10 has more excursion and is more efficant. it should absolutely destroy a octane R on all accounts. loud, quick, low-end, SQ...everything.

Post by **Rold Gold** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:55 pm

You'll also have to take the fact that it's a 10 and not a 12. I think 10's are more punchy and exact. 12's are a bit more boomy and really grab that low low bass note. But that should still be a beasty woof.

finkle636 · Post by **finkle636** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:12 pm

I'll try one VC at a time then.

What would i see if the VC's are set in opposition, surely the sub wouldn't move as they'd cancel each other out?

I know that as it is if i run the 10" out of phase then the bass increases.

Time to test i think.

One more thing to point out, with the 10" connected i had to drive it THAT HARD to get an adequate rumble out of it that the headlights dimmed REAL BAD, the 12" Octane R on the otherhand, produces more sound and they dont even flicker, even when i'm really hammering it.

Post by **stipud** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:24 pm

What do you mean by rumble anyways?

The Octane-R's are very boomy subs. The RSD comps are not.

finkle636 · Post by **finkle636** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:31 pm

By rumble i mean the ability to hold the lower rumbling note, not the fast hitting punch part of the sound.

Does that meake any sense?

It is there, just, but it is vastly out of balance with the punch.

Where as on the 12" they are the same. rumble and punch are balanced. Its as if theres a crossover on the 10" removing the lower freq's (but obviously there isnt)

finkle636 · Post by **finkle636** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:40 pm

I had a similar experience to this in a van.

My mate had a nasty 12" $30 sub and a 100wrms amp sat in the back.

I had an audiobahn 1100w RMS Eternal and 800w RMS audiobahn amp, and we put it in there to see what it did and it didn't produce anywhere near as much bass as his crap equipment. I was so embarrased and i have no idea why that happened, as the sub was really moving. You could feel the FAR increased power of the sound when you put your hand on the outer panels of the van, but hardly any audible bass.

It came straightout an old car i had at the time where it was fine.

Subs, they just dont like me.

Post by **stipud** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:09 pm

Do you still have the sub pointing in your car? If so, that is the problem. Cancellation is a bitch!

finkle636 · Post by **finkle636** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:10 pm

Nope, facing rear in a proper prefab box with angled rear and carpeted.

Post by **stipud** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:21 pm

Welp... maybe you just need an RSD comp 12?

Generally 10's play really clean, and blend better than other subs. While they can reproduce low end just fine, they won't give you the car-shaking bass you expected.

When I switched from RSD 10's to RSD 12's, the difference was somewhat as you said. The 10 lacked the gusto of the 12, despite hitting all the same notes.

I haven't tried an RSD comp 10, but my 12 suits me just right

PaulD · Post by **PaulD** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:15 pm

my guess is that the box is the right size for the 12" and too big for the 10"

thedeal7235 · Post by **thedeal7235** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:13 pm

i dont think 150 hz, is correct, it should be at 80hz max!!!! i know everyone here luvs sealed, but the rsdc 10s ported, have SERIOUS OUTPUT, espicially on the very low end, -its all in the box, plus ,think about it, the nominal power on a rsdc is 600 watts; if u keep ur rsd 600.1 amp, maybe the other sub sounded better, more output, b/c it requires less power, which makes it seem more efficent, i had 3 diamond d610s b4 i switched to the 2 rsdc10, the output is incredible on mine, and i am by no means a master box builder, jmho and thoughts