System configuration.

masonsjeep · Post by **masonsjeep** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:51 am

Hello. Due to a change in equipment i.m after some input and recomendations as to what to use and where to use it.
I have the following.

Phoenix Gold Ti6 elite comps
Phoenix Gold T9m midbass
Kicker XPL15 subs x2

Amps.

Phoenix Gold ZX 450
Phoenix Gold ZX 500
Phoenix Gold ZPA 0.3
Phoenix Gold ZPA 0.5

I was going to run the system like this.

ZPA 0.3 ------ Ti6 elite using the Passive X-over
ZX 500 ------ T9m Midbass
ZPA 0.5 ------ XPL15 The ZPA would have the resistors cut for 2 ohm load.

ZX450 into storage.

Any ideas on the above.???

thedeal7235 · Post by **thedeal7235** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:25 pm

i can store ur zx450 , if ud like!

just kidding, i personally dont like the pg passive xover for the elites;believe it causes the tweets to blow, let other members chime in on their thoughts-i only blew my 2 sets of tweets recently(active) b/c I WASNT PAYING ATTENTION!!! when i first got my elites, i blew them passively, 2 sets, in 2 months period-something to consider, i think, (so ur not going thru what i am right now)

masonsjeep · Post by **masonsjeep** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:10 pm

Thanks for the offer of storage.

I really don't want to blow anything if i can help it. How much power were you giving the tweeters, both passive and active.

thedeal7235 · Post by **thedeal7235** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:19 pm

passive was 75 rms, active i ran them , no problems off my ti600.2(150by2 rms), i think the the 150 by 2 @ 4ohms off the 600.2 , was when I had the least problems with them, once i put my zx450 back in, and put them on 75 watts again(this time active, and allowed too much gain into them from DMM setting), is what blew them, but i think ill put new ones back on at 150, i also use the mx3i external xover, at 3200-3500khz, DO NOT go below the 3200, i think-

masonsjeep · Post by **masonsjeep** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:29 pm

I can't help but think the Zpa0.3 for tweeters anf the Zpa0.5 for mid duties would be a little over kill if i ran active.

thedeal7235 · Post by **thedeal7235** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:39 pm

I would run the 0.3 on the tweets, but thats me, too bad its only 2 channel, if it were 4 channel, might be a better option?!-well ur original idea, 0.3 passive isnt bad, i just know im not the only person to blow the tweets with the passive; theres a thread around here somewhere talking about that exact subject; i think someone said the ti tweets passive was designed directly by pg, not morel, so, they said that was the problem, then someone said no it was morel, who really knows?; when i look @ morel specs for similiar tweets, they show the response as low as 1800khz, i think

masonsjeep · Post by **masonsjeep** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:51 pm

What do you run for sub duties. I gather your front end has something to keep up with.

thedeal7235 · Post by **thedeal7235** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:28 pm

i run 2 rsdc 10s, power from the rsd1200.1-all my stuff is under installs and ride-i have an 02 A4-ive switched out, re-configured alot over the last year

masonsjeep · Post by **masonsjeep** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:14 am

Also, would i need a line driver for all the amps listed above.?
And do they have to go in the front ie near to head unit, Could they go in the boot or is this a no no.

thedeal7235 · Post by **thedeal7235** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:49 am

i always use a line driver(since 1994), and i always have mine in the back, never had the ability to put it near the head unit as is rec.-

thedeal7235 · Post by **thedeal7235** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:51 am

im almost positive that if ur using a zpa amp, u GOTTA HAVE a LINE DRIVER, or balanced input, otherwise those amps will never reach their potential

masonsjeep · Post by **masonsjeep** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:07 am

Thanks again for the info.
I have 1 line driver and looks like i better buy a few more.

I think I'm going to be busy over christmas taking the old install out and trying to find enough room for the new 1. oh this will be fun

thedeal7235 · Post by **thedeal7235** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:45 am

i thinku should look for a sld-44, but others may say to look for a tld-66, if u already have a pld-1, then the sld-44 would be like a tld66, once u add ur pld-1 and sld-44 together-jmho

thedeal7235 · Post by **thedeal7235** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:49 am

or, u could use a single line driver to run the whole system-old pg specs, show alot of systems off one line driver, but sometimes, that can limit ur control, but i believe it helps to equal out overall balance that way-give/take, as ur aware, as always-

masonsjeep · Post by **masonsjeep** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:15 am

I'll be on the lookout for another black PLD1 i think, willbe nice to keep with the theme.

thedeal7235 · Post by **thedeal7235** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:23 am

damn, i had a black pld-1 i ssold it to deathcloud, and i believe hedoes want to sale it-deathcloud is his name-Christian( and im sure hell charge u a fair price-)

Post by **smgreen20** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:35 pm

I run my Elite6's passive powered by a 450 and no issues yet. I too was worried about the blown tweet issue, but a fellow member gave me a deal I couldn't refuse.

Greg had a 2nd set of Ti tweets for back up for the same reasons. Said he'd give me his back ups and to just go for it. As soon as his tweets arrived in the mail I went out and took out the passive and went active. I'm not totally done w/the system set up yet, but I've wailed on these things and have had 0 problems.

I set the gains up via the DMM method.

Go active or go home. That's what I say.

masonsjeep · Post by **masonsjeep** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:47 pm

To go active i would need either another ZPA 0.5 or another ZX500-

Zpa 0.3 ---- Tweeters.
Zpa 0.5 ---- Mids.
ZX 450 ---- Midbass
Then either 2 Zx500 for the subs or Zpa 0.5.

Post by **smgreen20** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:41 pm

ZX450-- mids/tweets active
ZPA0.3- Mid bass
ZPA0.5- Subs

Post by **stipud** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:38 am

Hold on a sec, this thread is a little bit off.

First of all, the Elite passive causes tweets to blow??

I don't think a passive crossover is going to cause a tweeter to blow when compared to active, since it offers additional protection over a naked tweeter. It makes no sense that it would blow with a passive, but not active on the same feed, once all that protection is removed.

Thedeal, it is far more likely you have a clipped signal somewhere... you have set your gains with a DMM, but if any device anywhere in the chain is clipping (headunit, linedriver, etc), you will be blowing tweeters. A DMM will not tell you when something is clipping. Keep in mind you have still blown tweets running active as well, so I think that debunks your theory on the passive XOs. Most people haven't blown these Elite tweeters with or without the passives.

Please, Thedeal, if I can ask you a favor... do not state these things as if they were fact. Instead say, "in my opinion" or "in my experience". Even I try to do that as often as possible, rather than making blanket statements as fact.

Now, in regards to the thread topic, you certainly have a lot of options.

You could run your components active or passive. If you want to run active, you should also have a 30 band equalizer and somewhere you can get it RTA tuned. Otherwise, the passive XO has notch filters, which tame problem frequencies so you have better sound quality when running in doors. Running active will get more power to the components, since the passive crossover steals some of the power from the set. But it also means you need to spend way more time tuning to get it sounding it's best. Very rewarding if you have the right tools.

Personally I wouldn't choose the Elites to run active. What makes them expensive is their passive crossover. Otherwise, there are DIY midranges and tweeters that you can buy, which are higher quality than the components in the Elite set, despite being cheaper, since you're not paying for the engineering on the passive crossover. If I was running active, I would probably use a good DIY driver like SEAS, Tymphany, etc. That's not to say the Elites can't or shouldn't be run active, only they wouldn't be my first choice for it.

As for amp configurations, I would agree with smgreen for the most part...

ZX450 - mids/tweets active
ZX500/ZPA 0.3 - midbass
ZPA 0.5 - subwoofer

Alternatively you can run the set passive, in which case I would do something like...

ZX500 - elites
ZX450 bridged/ZPA 0.3 - midbass
ZPA 0.5 - sub

Either way, you have a choice between a ZX amp or ZPA for your midbass. At that point, I would personally choose whichever makes the look the best.

Finally, there is the minimal setup
ZX450 - elites passive AND midbass
ZPA 0.5 - sub

As thedeal said, the ZPAs will require a linedriver. Which linedriver you need will depend on how you want to cross over your speakers. Are you using the headunit crossover, or do you want to use the crossovers in the amps themselves?

marko · Post by **marko** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:29 am

this how i would run it..

zpa 0.3 on elite 6 set with passive you'll get more than 75 a channel!!!

zpa 0.5 on ti9's

zx500 on subs @2ohms mono, i'm sure this amp doesn't mind 2ohms mono..

i would never run a zpa @2ohms mono even with the mod, it will die an early death trying to suck a tn of juice all the time!

masonsjeep · Post by **masonsjeep** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:27 am

Mark. I think i may pick your brains at the weekend.

0.3 to run the elites passive
0.5 to run midbass
Zx500 on the subs

This sounds the best way to be honest. If i can find another Zx500 i'll be heaven.

Post by **stipud** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:38 am

I also approve of Marko's idea. The only thing I would do differently is maybe use the ZPA 0.5 on the comps instead, since you could easily RTA flat using the ZPA 0.3 on the midbass, and the added power to the comps would help your front stage volume quite a bit.

ZPAs are probably a waste on subs. They are purist SQ amps. You would never hear the difference between them and any lesser PG amp.

Another alternative (as if you don't have enough)... Use the ZX450 to 2x4 ohm bridged

masonsjeep · Post by **masonsjeep** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:46 am

Do you think i would hear much of inprovement if i ran active like this.

0.3 --- tweeters
0.5 ---- mids
Zx450 bridged ----- mid bass
Zx500 ----- subs

Would the set up and hard work be worth it.??

marko · Post by **marko** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:31 am

masonsjeep wrote:Do you think i would hear much of inprovement if i ran active like this.

0.3 --- tweeters
0.5 ---- mids
Zx450 bridged ----- mid bass
Zx500 ----- subs

Would the set up and hard work be worth it.??

you could but lots of people don't recomend running the comps active, i've never so can't comment, there's something in the passives that compensate for the week magnet of the 6's so i hear.

just play about with differant configs, you would be amazed what works and what doesn't, i'm still trying to figure out why my denon sub hammers so well off 120watts!