a Proud Xenon Owner

Dr. Green · Post by **Dr. Green** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:15 am

Howsit guys.

I am from Cape Town South Africa and got hold of some Xenon amps The 200.4 and 1200.1 with LPL44's amd RMD's. In SA we got these amps for dirt cheap($200) and I believe this has hurt the range's reputation.

The amps have very high fuse rating 100amp and 120amp. When we did a test on the current draw of these babies I only got a reading of 33amps max listening to Infected Mushroom on full tilt.

I only hav an RE SR 12" on the mono at 2ohms and a set of 6.5" MB Quart discuss on the front channels on the multichannel.

I am just wondering if the current draw sounds about right? Im feeding the amps 5v with gains 1/4 open.

You guys are very clued up when it comes to amps much respect I have a very very long way to go.

Looking forward to learn alot

Dr. Green · Post by **Dr. Green** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:18 am

And my first post in the wrong section

Post by **stipud** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:36 am

Huh? Unless someone moved it, this is the right section.

As for the current draw, you probably won't get anywhere near that until you start playing test tones. Dynamic music will rarely run an amp up to it's maximum output, and even then, it will be for periods so brief that your multimeter won't be able to pick it up.

So as long as your amp works, everything should be just fine

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:41 am

Welcome to the Phorum!

I just moved your post, so no worries about that.

Since the 200.4 is a class A/B amp with efficiency around say... 50-60% (is that right, tech guys?) I would say that ~33 amps is pretty low draw and that your amp isn't putting out rated power in the current configuration. Then again, your amp only puts out rated power at the very top dynamic peaks, or at least that's the only time it should. Stipud is probably right.

33 amps at 12V with 50% efficiency is only about 200W or so. The 200.4 should be able to do four times that on dynamic peaks. The 1200.1 is Class D so the efficiency should be quite a bit higher meaning less current draw for the same amount of power at the speakers.

Have to setup your gains with a DMM yet? Do you know for a fact that your amps are seeing 5V or is that just your head unit rating? I'm pretty sure the Xenons like up to 10V inputs, Bfowler runs them that hot if I'm not mistaken.

shaheen · Post by **shaheen** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:20 am

Dude, do not let the current draw on your amps put you off, you could have them set up low, also 1 set of splits with HP on will not pull current, lower bass draws more power then splits. Like allthe guys have said the ratings are based on test tones, not dynamic music.

oh and welcome by the way.

tsonka · Post by **tsonka** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:41 am

If posting in the wrong forum is the worst you ever do here then your better then the most of us. Peopel here are generally pretty cool, we dont have the assholes that just look for any little thing to grumble about and say you did wrong.

Welcome to the Phorum. We gotta see pics though, gotta have pics to be a Phorum member.

Grats on your Xenon's, Im running a 200.4 and 200.2 and love em both.

Dr. Green · Post by **Dr. Green** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:12 pm

Nobody will put me off my amps just trying to understand better of how they work. My main concern actually is the fact that I only have a 55A Alternator in my car. This is the reason for the RMD I got and so far so good.

Duno about a true 5v that im feeding it, but I have an RF 9320 HU and I heard that it is true to 5v.

Was just scared that my Alty limits the amount of current my amps draw.

Also my system was a bit softer at full tilt than some other cars I listened to who all mainly ran DLS components. I guess this must be due to the low sens of the quarts compared to dls thats 93db.

Anyway Shot for the welcom guys

oldskoolmseriesfan · Post by **oldskoolmseriesfan** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:22 pm

Welcome to the family Dr.Green

shaheen · Post by **shaheen** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:15 pm

Your Alty will be fine, your amps pull current from the battery , not the alty , the alty is just there to top up the battery so it does not drain out (simple mans terms).

A better alty will recharge the battery quicker , hence the dips will be less frequesnt and also a lot less.

As for the headunit , yes they do make 5vrms , but again this is with a test tone, I would suggest a good line driver on those Xenon amps they come alive with them. And again remember current draw is max at big and heavy bass notes, thats why u do not dip lights when playing splits.

1/4 up seems a bit low, might need a bit more, but with the discus i would not push it.

I would suggest your next step to be the EQ230 and TBA from Naughty , since you have a LPL , you do not need to worry about sub level from the headunit. 1 RCA to TBA, bump line to EQ230 , then to amp , this way u can have 30 band left and right.

Not a punt , but it will make a world of diff to your system.

fordtough1 · Post by **fordtough1** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:08 pm

Welcome to the Phorum!

I use a Xenon 200.2, and 1200.1 in my daily driver with a 65 amp alternator, and they do fine. I use a line driver to push the RCA voltage up around 10 volts also, really makes them sing. I've been using the Xenon's for about a year now, and I love them.

Anyway, welcome

Post by **mr tibbs** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:47 pm

If you are that worried about it I would suggest getting a DMM and taking some measurements. But, if your system sounds good to you then don't worry about it and enjoy the music! That is why you built a system in the first place isn't it?

Post by **ttocs** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:25 pm

how did you test the current draw? Not alot of meters are made to handle that much current.

Dr. Green · Post by **Dr. Green** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:43 am

@ Shaheen: I was looking at the stuff Naugthy has infact the 1200.1 is his old amp. Cash at the moment is a problem tho but hopefully he wont be selling that soon! I am also desperate to upgrade the Quarts first.

The current Draw was measured by a very expensive Clamp meter that is use for industial purposes. We just clamped this around the 0g cable and got a reading from the magnetic field around the cable.

Post by **ttocs** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:31 am

ah, gotcha that would be ok. I had an image of you possibly using your radio shack meter in series on the power wire confused why it would not show more.

I would not be worried about the gain being too much until you pass the 3/4 full area. Even then the amp has a thermal protection to protect it if it is running too hot. You will know if your electrical system is weak if you can get some volume out of your system. You do not need to worry about the alt just blowing up if it can't supply the current needed, the cars idle might dip, lights will dim but until you jam it like that for a long time you will be fine.

Crank it up mang!

Post by **AVICJR** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:06 am

I had to crank up the gain on my X1200.1 fairly high as well until I added a line driver.

Dr. Green · Post by **Dr. Green** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:02 pm

Ok so I am able to get the EQ230 shaheen is talking about aswell as the TBA that goes with it.

I understand that this would give me up to 8vrms. I do not know much about these pieces or even what a 1/3rd octave EQ does. But I suppose I can learn.

I always believed in KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid)

The way my RCA's will run is also a bit confusing.

I guess one RCA into TBA then from TBA to EQ230 from EQ230 to 200.4 and then use lineout on 200.4 to 1200.1?

I wont be able to get TA out of this and when I would like to go active an crossover would be needed.

If I do get Alpine with TA later would it work with this setup?

Would the 8vrms form this setup be unclipped and enough for the Xenon's?

Or does a RF 360.2 do all of this in one?

Sorry for all the questions guys but thanks in advance.

shaheen · Post by **shaheen** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:41 pm

Well the EQ230 is a great piece fo equipment the TBA will provide you more then enough juice for the Xenon, it bumps the signal to the back and the EQ can do left right independant. it has a single set of RCA's so yes, you go from EQ to amp to amp.

You will not be able to get TA out of it , at a later stage if you want to go TA you will need to think about this , the RF360.2 does the TA bit for u and has the same amount of features.

you will not need active X-overs fo the future as you have a 24db x-over on the PG's and they can do bandpass.

naughty · Post by **naughty** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:42 pm

Dr. Green wrote:Ok so I am able to get the EQ230 shaheen is talking about aswell as the TBA that goes with it.

I understand that this would give me up to 8vrms. I do not know much about these pieces or even what a 1/3rd octave EQ does. But I suppose I can learn.

well an octave is a doubling or halving of a frequency - so basically that just defines how many bands of EQ you get - here in this instance you get 30 bands to cover the spectrum between 20hz and 20000hz and thats 30 bands for each of left and right channels

I always believed in KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid)

so do i - and im sure so do most of the other users here

The way my RCA's will run is also a bit confusing.

lets try and sort out that confusion for you then and clarify the issues

I guess one RCA into TBA then from TBA to EQ230 from EQ230 to 200.4 and then use lineout on 200.4 to 1200.1?

that totally depends on what you want to do and how you want to configure the setup - remember the EQ is a line driver and the balanced line transmission unit is a line driver as well - right now ive got the EQ as well as the Tbat (both the transmitter and reciever and the cable inbetween) - so you could for example run a long rca from the front outputs of the headunit to the EQ and then from there a short set of RCA's to the x200.4 - this gives you a line driver as well as EQ to the x200.4 - so if you high pass there at say 80hz from 80hz to 20000hz gets covered by the EQ - so then you could run a short RCA to the TBAT transmitter - then run the balanced line to the receiver - this doesnt really cover the EQ on the sub output - but the sub isnt playing too much of signal - and most of the time it is sufficiently tuned by your enclosure design - so in this manner yu could split them up and use them in a different manner as to how i was going to use them but the parts are there to give you line driver to sub as well as front stage if you like

I wont be able to get TA out of this and when I would like to go active an crossover would be needed.

it would only be needed if you want to run for example three way front stage fully active - but if you keep your passives or you bi-amp via passives then you wont need a separate crossover - if you do decide on three way then it can still work perfect on a mix of active/passive ie the x200.4 set up on 4 channel mode ie only one set of rca's going into it - and press in the little button that puts it into 4 channel mode - this will allow you to bandpass the midbass from wherever your sub starts working up to around 400hz (below that if you like if your midrange can operate from low enough) - then you can highpass a set of passives from 400hz up and let those split up duties betwen a midrange and tweeter - for a three way setup

If I do get Alpine with TA later would it work with this setup?

if you use the alpine built in crossover in the two way mode ie subwoofer low pass - and then high pass for the front stage then you can use the T/A as left and right and also sub

Would the 8vrms form this setup be unclipped and enough for the Xenon's?

i actually found the output to be too much from the line drivers - and the one good thing is it allows you to keep the amp gains very very low - so you are straining nothing and running the amps cooler yet still getting sfficient output

Or does a RF 360.2 do all of this in one?

you could keep the rockford headunit and the advantage is that you get 32 bands of EQ for 6 differing channels - not that you would need it though IMHO - because you would only be able to EQ maybe two bands for the sub ad waste 30 bands - and then maybe around 5 bands for the midbass and then waste the balance - and still more bands for midrange and treble but you would still be wasting a few bands in that section that you wont be able to use - it does do it all in the digital domain though and it wont offer you independent T/A on all channels though - but yep to be honest the RF360.2 would do more than the old school parts but the line driver is only up to 5 volts which i reckon your headunit is in all probability already giving you

Sorry for all the questions guys but thanks in advance.

there are many other ways to configure the setup using the old school stuff or even the 360.2 - but ive got access to all of those so if you have any questions about any of them just shout - and i want to stress - theres no pressure you on having to buy the EQ and TBAT - you need to decide what your ideal setup would be and stick to a plan on getting to that configuration ie if the 360.2 does whatever you need then plan around that - right now as a digital processor the 360.2 is my personal favourite - but when they iron out the 1 or 2 small issues in the audison bit one thats got a lot more going for it than the 360.2 but it will also be twice the price

Dr. Green · Post by **Dr. Green** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:40 am

Thanks Naugthy!

I will let you know as soon as I have made up my mind. It is becoming more clear to me now.

Dr. Green · Post by **Dr. Green** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:22 am

Ok one more question.

Say from the EQ230 one set of RCA's goes into the 200.4. Now on the 200.4 i use that 4 channel mode button wich would give signal to all four channels right? Now one set of RCA's is providing all four channels with signal. Does the strength of the signal get divided because it is now in four channel mode if you get what I am trying to say? So now my amp will see 4vrms front and rear from the single 8vrms?

The Aux out going to the 1200.1 will be a stereo signal right? Is this a problem if I am running a single woofer? Does it matter how the woofer is connected to the 1200.1?

naughty · Post by **naughty** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:30 pm

Dr. Green wrote:Ok one more question.

Say from the EQ230 one set of RCA's goes into the 200.4. Now on the 200.4 i use that 4 channel mode button wich would give signal to all four channels right? Now one set of RCA's is providing all four channels with signal. Does the strength of the signal get divided because it is now in four channel mode if you get what I am trying to say? So now my amp will see 4vrms front and rear from the single 8vrms?

The Aux out going to the 1200.1 will be a stereo signal right? Is this a problem if I am running a single woofer? Does it matter how the woofer is connected to the 1200.1?

okay - thats why i say that you need to run the EQ as a line driver for the front stage on the x200.4 - that button would parrallel those inputs - and when you parrallel you wont affect voltage - you would affect the current - thats what holds true for RCA's AFAIK - besides with the amount of power on those 200.4's you dont need the line driver there so much cos the amp would still give you more than enough power for most mids and tweeters .......in fact i reckon most of the time its actually too much power unless you have 8 ohm tweeters or something like that - but in terms of the voltage the amp receives the 8v and when its being parralleled internally it would pass on the 8v as well so AFAIK all the INPUTS would be at 8v - not 100% sure if the pre-out then also would transmit on the 8v though it seems logical that it would

i would suggest that the 1200.1 needs the voltage more than the front stage - so if you now use the TBAT on there this would allow you to control it exactly how you are doing from your headunit now - cos it comes from the sub out of the head unit to the transmitter - balanced line cable to the back to the receiver and then rca to the amps instead of using an rca from the x200.4 pre-out to the x1200.1 so in case that 8v isnt transmitted on as logic dictates you would make the sub channels still be 8v by using these items independently

my alpine headunit has a feature which allows me to control the subwoofer out as being stereo or mono - using a single sub id prefer it should be on mono

however if all of this seems too much trouble - the 360.2 will give you up to 5 volt output on all the outputs - either way left up to you

- the 360.2 method would be simpler cos if you do buy the alpine headunit i reckon then that half the stuff you have would then become redundant cos the alpine has it - but the alpine sometimes just falls short of exactly whats required cos for example my friend Babloo was using the 360.2 on his OEM headunit and he swopped the HU for a 9887 - but he kept the 360.2 cos the headunit just didnt offer as much control and functionality as the 360.2 even though on paper it is supposed to be close to that

Does it matter how the woofer is connected to the 1200.1?

if you use the balanced line transmitter from the front and connect up to the EQ as the reciever then the x200.4 receives the higher voltage and when i asked here i was told it would transmit on the higher voltage but i didnt experience that (i didnt measure it but i did not get the gains going any lower or the sub getting any louder or hitting any harder) - the other method of using the TBAT as a separate entity away from the EQ and as a line driver for the sub amp would probably work better IMHO - that is if you are going the EQ and TBAT route - the 360.2 route would be slightly simpler and require less plannning cos it offers more functionality - but generally at local prices its around R5500 while you know what im offering you the EQ and TBat at is almost around R3k cheaper but sometimes you need to pay for the convenience you want - forgot one other thing that makes the 360.2 really pricey is that you need a laptop or a palmpilot with bluetooth functionality to make it usable - if you have either one of those then its fine - all you need to do is buy the unit and install the software and away you go - but if you dont have either each time you want to try out an adjustment you need to either go in to the dealer or live without making the adjustment - and thats a pity cos one generally buys these things to tinker around - the same would go for any other digitally adjusted processor - if you dont have a laptop - to control it properly you will have to buy one

whereas the EQ and tBat are analog devices - all the controls are just trimpots on the devices themselves

another simple thing that may work without any EQ for you would be if shaheen is able to find you one of those TLD66 line drivers which is i think a 6 channel line driver - and locally i believe vibe also has a 6 channel line driver all these things do is to increase your pre-out voltage - so if thats what your aim is and you then intend to get another headunit eg the 9887 this will also do the trick so that you can use the full functionality of the headunit for the processing

so your choices are as follows in no particular order

1) 360.2
2) EQ230 and TBAT
3) 6 channel line driver (if you can find one - not sure how easy these are to find here in South Africa - may be easier overseas - but thats why you take advantage of shaheen being there now

)
4) use the processing from a new headunit like the alpine 9887 or clarion DXZ885usb or even a top of the range kenwood - though you might struggle to find a kenwood with the T/A functionality

so there you have it - hope this helps you a bit - still a bewildering array of choices out there - so once again best to formulate a plan to keep it simple and then stick to it - to be honest im selling the EQ and Tbat as well my amps cos im now simplifying my system to 9887 headunit - to 5 channel amp - mids and tweeters active - one small sub (no more 15") - all processing to be done by headunit - but most of the time my listening will be done with everything including imprint settings bypassed - but thats cos im now going to concentrate on my home system - im getting tired of complicated car setups

cos i cant get them as perfect as id like to and the best and most expensive car systems still dont come anywhere near to an average home system besides for one aspect and thats tonality - but in terms of soundstaging and imaging as well as scale and presence and that palpable feeling of almost listening to the real thing im finding even my computer speakers beat out my car setup even though the car setup cost like 20 times more - was a sign to me that im fighting a losing battle so im just packing it in - simple car system for me from now on - no more upgrades for me after i settle down in this simplified system - might only consider a change to my speakers but only after i change my car

Dr. Green · Post by **Dr. Green** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:27 pm

Thanks Naughty for taking the time to reply with so much of detail.

I am getting the feeling that I should take that EQ but times are tough for me at the moment

If you can sell it great go ahead dont reserve it for me. But at this very moment I dont know what to do. I am wanting to upgrade my comps and feel that that would make a bigger difrence in my car in terms of how it sounds.

naughty · Post by **naughty** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:14 pm

Dr. Green wrote:Thanks Naughty for taking the time to reply with so much of detail.

no problems

I am getting the feeling that I should take that EQ but times are tough for me at the moment

that goes for us all - if i could have id have tried to keep that stuff but im in a bit of a jam now too

If you can sell it great go ahead dont reserve it for me. But at this very moment I dont know what to do. I am wanting to upgrade my comps and feel that that would make a bigger difrence in my car in terms of how it sounds.

that is true - mainly cos before you use any form of EQ etc you need the basics to be 100% and the basics would mean having a great source as well as great amps and great speakers - but yeah snazzy seems to be taking the EQ for the moment - so that seems to be gone

fahrfrompuken · Post by **fahrfrompuken** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:48 pm

I too am a recent proud Phoenix owner.

I just bought a Xenon x200.4 and a x600.1 they are supposedly new old stock and I can't wait to install and run them. I was wondering what I should run since my head unit AVIC-X910BT only has 2V pre-outs. I was also wondering what EQ would not only meet my needs here, but also work when I go active. Here is my list of equipment.

Pioneer AVIC-X910BT head unit
Phoenix Gold X200.4 4 channel amp
Phoenix Gold x600.1 monoblock amp
JBL C608 GTI MKII component speakers
Eclipse SW8000 10" sub

Right now everything in my car is stock with the exception of the head unit (I couldn't wait

).

This is all going in a 2007 Toyota Camry SE V6.

Any advice you guys have to give would be great! Thank you in advance.